Premarital Oral Sex

[Weasel7711]

I agree with what you are saying, but how you got to those conclusions is confusing. I didnt really understand your process. But this thread isnt for me, hopefully the OP is smarter.

Well the verse in Genesis makes me conclude that sex is a binding act. God says "the two shall become one flesh" and this is referring to sex and not just marriage since it is quoted in 1 Cor as referring to what happens when one has sex with a prostitute. Thus sex binds you to the person you are having it with. If you then are bound to one and bind yourself to another later on, its like separating the first union. Thus if you only have sex with the one person your entire life I wouldn't see where that would be a bad thing. The only way to make sure that you don't have sex with another is to marry that person. That is assuming you don't divorce that person because of irreconcilable differences.
Did that make any sense?

 

[Briseis]

I see a bit better. I am very slow, ppl I know know it. They have to explain everything to me at least twice. By that verse alone, yes, thats what it sounds like. But you also quoted Hebrews 13:4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebrews 13
4Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

The word used here for fornication is "inappropriate contentea" which is any kind of illicit sex, which includes sex outside of marriage. Ask any reputable Bible scholar.

 

[Weasel7711]

I see a bit better. I am very slow, ppl I know know it. They have to explain everything to me at least twice. By that verse alone, yes, thats what it sounds like. But you also quoted Hebrews 13:4.

By that I was saying it seems that fornication is a sin. And by fornication it means illicit sex, which includes premarital sex.

 

[ImperialPhantom]

Well the verse in Genesis makes me conclude that sex is a binding act. God says "the two shall become one flesh" and this is referring to sex and not just marriage since it is quoted in 1 Cor as referring to what happens when one has sex with a prostitute. Thus sex binds you to the person you are having it with. If you then are bound to one and bind yourself to another later on, its like separating the first union. Thus if you only have sex with the one person your entire life I wouldn't see where that would be a bad thing. The only way to make sure that you don't have sex with another is to marry that person. That is assuming you don't divorce that person because of irreconcilable differences.
Did that make any sense?

Well, first thing first, inappropriate contenteia has been used to mean many things, but I have never found one instance in which it has been legitimately defined as premarital sex. I've searched and researched quite a bit on it. The only time I've seen one of its definitions be "fornication" doesn't make sense because "fornication" comes from "inappropriate contenteia" and "inappropriate contenteia" doesn't mean premarital sex. That specific definition came around some centuries after the NT was written, but back then, "fornication" as it appears in most English Bibles, was also used to mean idol worship/sex with temple prostitutes. Premarital sex was a huge non-issue back then.

The best and most biblical argument that can be made is that with premarital sex, two become one flesh. So that doesn't make the premarital sex itself the sin, that would breaking up after having it the sin. And whether even that includes oral and manual, as anything beyond someone's emotional feeling, is to the couple to pray about and decide.

 

[Briseis]

By that I was saying it seems that fornication is a sin. And by fornication it means illicit sex, which includes premarital sex.

Yes, and I was agreeing without you. One verse you quoted made it sound as if it is ok as long as its the only person you will ever have sex with, while that one verse said something different, but I agree.

 

[eatenbylocusts]

I think it's great that there are avenues for discussing these issues now. When I was growing up I was taught that sex needed to be saved for marriage. There were no details, so I stumbled along making mistakes. Yes, I did hear the Holy Spirit talking to me along the way, but I ignored it and put myself in dangerous, stupid situations.

Am I absolutely convinced that all sexual touching is wrong before marriage? No, but that's probably because of how I grew up. I can say that even non-intercourse activities can create a bond that is painful when a break up occurs. And if it happens early in a relationship it clouds your thinking when you should be very alert in deciding on continuing a relationship. At the very least it seems that intimate touching should never occur until the marriage date is set in the very near future, and she has a ring on her finger. Defer to the Holy Spirit though.

I wish that I did not have the memories that I do with my ex-bf who I dated over a year. I thought we were heading towards marriage. Thinking of one of the guys that I'm seeing now who is so honorable; I wish I could've been more so. I would be very embarrassed if he asked me what took place in my last relationship.

 

[ImperialPhantom]

I don't like the argument that sexual touching can create a bond that makes breakups painful. The reason being, is that many things can create a bond like that. Sex or sexual touch is not the only thing that can do that.

 

[bithiah2]

people are going to do exactly what they want to do, no matter what the Bible says. the same God we pray to when we want to be blessed, is the same God we need to obey on a daily basis. not that we don't make mistakes, but some of the stuff we do...is on purpose. and then we make up all kinds of reasonings as to why we do it.
and no, we don't need permission to do it. if i have already made up my mind to do what i like to do, it does not matter what anyone else has to say, because when it's all said and done, i will go and do it anyway, and make it OK with myself. that is they way we live now. we can argue with man all we want, but we can't argue with God.
this is why the church has such little respect in the media, and people go in one way and come out the same way. we want blessings from God, but we want to please ourselves.
bithiah2

 

[Briseis]

I don't like the argument that sexual touching can create a bond that makes breakups painful. The reason being, is that many things can create a bond like that. Sex or sexual touch is not the only thing that can do that.

Very true. Breaking up is very hard with emotional bonds alone, and this is not a good argument by itself, but I partially agree. Before my current bf, I had only kissed one other guy, and I really regret it. I wish that I had only ever been with my current bf. I know that there is always the possibility that we will not marry, as unlikely as it is, and I would then feel the same way with the next guy, wishing he had been the only one. It would be amazing to explore intimacy with someone for the first time, knowing without a doubt that they would be the only one forever. This is all just opinion. This does not make anything right or wrong, but I see it as an advantage.

 

[eatenbylocusts]

I don't like the argument that sexual touching can create a bond that makes breakups painful. The reason being, is that many things can create a bond like that. Sex or sexual touch is not the only thing that can do that.

True, but you have to get to know someone in order to determine if they're someone you want to marry. You don't have to bring someone to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] in a dating relationship in order to determine if you want to get engaged.

Speaking from a woman's perspective there can also be a feeling of being used if intimate touching was going on in the relationship and the man ends the relationship. As Christians, it would be great if our dating relationships looked different than what the rest of the world is doing, such as considering the other's feelings and the long-term/short-term ramifications of our actions on the other person.

I had a short intense courting relationship with a man where only hugging was going on. I was broken-hearted when he ended the relationship, but I had no regrets unlike the last one that ended.

 

[bliz]

PirateChris -

Imagine 25 years in to the future, and your daughter informs you that she and her boyfriend have decided that oral sex is OK outside of marriage especially since they are planning to get married someday.

How would you feel about that?

 

[keyz]

.

 

[ImperialPhantom]

True, but you have to get to know someone in order to determine if they're someone you want to marry. You don't have to bring someone to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] in a dating relationship in order to determine if you want to get engaged.

Speaking from a woman's perspective there can also be a feeling of being used if intimate touching was going on in the relationship and the man ends the relationship. As Christians, it would be great if our dating relationships looked different than what the rest of the world is doing, such as considering the other's feelings and the long-term/short-term ramifications of our actions on the other person.

I had a short intense courting relationship with a man where only hugging was going on. I was broken-hearted when he ended the relationship, but I had no regrets unlike the last one that ended.

Whether you have regrets or not does not have anything to do with whether it's wrong or not.

As for feeling used, if you consensually engaged in intimate touching, NONE of it against your will, then "feeling used" afterwards is a completely invalid feeling. If anything, blame yourself. Feeling used is blaming someone else for one's own actions if it was consensual.

 

[eatenbylocusts]

Whether you have regrets or not does not have anything to do with whether it's wrong or not.
As for feeling used, if you consensually engaged in intimate touching, NONE of it against your will, then "feeling used" afterwards is a completely invalid feeling. If anything, blame yourself. Feeling used is blaming someone else for one's own actions if it was consensual.

How often do you feel regret for an action that you know was absolutely was right?
In some instances regret does have a lot to do with the "wrongness" of an action. There were plenty of times when I struggled with trying to reinforce boundaries because I knew there were problems with the relationship and it didn't appear that we were going to get married.

And the feeling-used example was not my situation. I broke up with my ex-bf. I regret having those intimate (not intercourse) memories because it was even harder to keep that break up permanent. We shared a lot physically and emotionally and I miss all of that even though the break up needed to happen. I regret not having more restraint because I wouldn't want my future bf/h engaging in that kind of activity with every gf. I was asking you and others to consider how a woman might feel, especially if she was pushed beyond the boundaries that she had wanted to keep. And it doesn't matter if the activity was consensual. There can be lasting grief, regret, etc. the following day, month, year. I don't expect you to know how some women might feel. We are wired differently. I'm just telling you how many women feel when a relationship ends and they've gone "too far". Consider your fellow believer. Are you helping or hindering them in their walk? Is the activity you're engaging in/thinking of engaging in, possibly going to cause them pain in the future? Wouldn't it be better to err on the cautious side? If you say no, then you might want to really consider how much you really care for the person if you're putting your desires before the woman's well-being/spiritual walk.

The thought of a man holding back from pushing boundaries because he respects the woman; that is a man after my heart.

Even though I don't think I would feel guilty engaging in intimate touching with someone who I was engaged to and about to marry; I would never try to convince someone else that it was right. Because I could be wrong. Luke 17:1-3 "Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. So watch yourselves."

 

[Briseis]

In some instances regret does have a lot to do with the "wrongness" of an action.

Its guilt. If it feels wrong but you do it anyways, whether its wrong or not doesnt matter anymore, only the fact that you did what you thought was wrong. You did what you wanted in the moment, instead of what you believed, or felt, was right. I dont know if that made any sense.

 

[oneamanda2]

Premarital Oral Sex and any kind of premarital sex is wrong because it is committing an act of lust with someone who is not yours to do so with.

"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Matthew 5:28

Even lusting after someone you are not married to is considered adultery.

 

[Briseis]

I have heard the argument that sexual favors given outside of marriage are not lustful if they are given as a gift of love and not out of lust, but sexual gratification is a gift meant for marriage. Although I think I made that up I still strongly believe it.

 

[Beautiful Fireball]

Premarital Oral Sex and any kind of premarital sex is wrong because it is committing an act of lust with someone who is not yours to do so with.

"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Matthew 5:28

Even lusting after someone you are not married to is considered adultery.

But lust is not only a sexual thing, and just because something is done outside of marriage does not mean that it was done with lustful intentions.

 

[Thomas1984]

Is it really so hard to actually just save intimate acts for after a marriage has taken place?

If a person doesn't believe in God, or that His word has any deeper meaning, then you can't expect them to live their lives according to God's commandments.

But if one does truly believe, then why not concentrate on fulfiling His desires, rather than our own? I'm not saying it's easy, but we stand to gain more in the long run.

We all meet temptation as we travel through life, but the choices you make determine your path, and ultimately, your destination.

 

[Briseis]

Is it really so hard to actually just save intimate acts for after a marriage has taken place?

If a person doesn't believe in God, or that His word has any deeper meaning, then you can't expect them to live their lives according to God's commandments.

But if one does truly believe, then why not concentrate on fulfiling His desires, rather than our own? I'm not saying it's easy, but we stand to gain more in the long run.

We all meet temptation as we travel through life, but the choices you make determine your path, and ultimately, your destination.

Well, the problem is that not everyone agrees that its God will for us to completely abstain.