• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Predestination vs. Seeking, knocking and Answering the Door

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Points To Ponder, May 4, 2021.

  1. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +1,399
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    .
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  2. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +1,399
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Well enough. . .
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  3. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +1,399
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    We are not absolutely free and are not able to choose to be sinless, which is required for righteousness,
    but we have limited freedom to avoid at least some willful sin, which avoidance is of no value regarding salvation.

    Free will is not the issue/problem in the NT. The problem is the disposition--what one prefers and likes, which governs the will.

    The unregenerate man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, he cannot understand them, they are foolishness to him
    (1 Corinthians 2:14), and he wants no part of it.

    "That's why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." (John 6:65)

    So God works in the disposition giving one to understand and prefer the things that come from the Spirit of God, which man then freely and willingly receives and believes.

    God uses, not violates, the will in bringing men to saving faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  4. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

    +3,079
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Constitution
    Not "Calvinism" but Reformed Theology. Semi-Pelaganism was condemned in 529 by the RCC.

    I agree with the above answers. There's no conflict or contradiction.
    No need to edit God's questions; they're perfect the way they are.

    God is not partial with his children.

    Not ignored. I addressed most of them. The ones I haven't yet are:

    2 Cor 5:19 - By itself is a universalist message, and yet 17-18 provide the exact context.

    17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come">[a] The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:

    Verse 18 proves the whole point: It's God doing the work, not man.

    And then, 2 Peter 3:9

    Original greek uses the word "pas" (cited below) and can be understood in the same context as "not willing that any of you..." The message is for the audience.

    πᾶς,a \{pas}
    1) individually 1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything 2) collectively 2a) some of all types

    This is simple logic, God has no reason to create humans that He would wish not to perish, but end up doing so beyond His Will, for He knows even before they were created both their purpose for His Glory and their final destination. To assume that He doesn't create people He knows are destined for Hell apart from His Will is to either deny His Omniscience OR Creatorship. Which shall we deny? I refuse to deny either.

    No, you haven't. What is the source of faith? God or man?

    Again, with His Children. There are children of the devil to consider: sheep v. goats; wheat v. tare
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  5. HosannaHM

    HosannaHM Christian Saved by Grace

    744
    +129
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    It's a bad attitude and a bad witness, especially in the context in which it was said. I don't like arguing with people for the sake of arguing.
     
  6. HosannaHM

    HosannaHM Christian Saved by Grace

    744
    +129
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    Yup, and the part that is being misunderstood is that both Calvinism and Arminianism are orthodox. It's okay to disagree people. It's not okay to treat people's doctrines as stupid, especially if they have strong scriptural support. This is why the Calvin/Arminius argument wears me out over time. I am skeptical that people come to threads like this to actually understand, because in reality what happens is that people start to tell everyone else how they're wrong and said individuals are right. A little more humility would do us all well.
     
  7. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +1,399
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    I apologize.
     
  8. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +1,399
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    I don't do "Calvinism," I do Bible.

    And the teaching you presented is likewise heresy to the RCC.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  9. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +1,399
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    According to its definition, that would not be correct, would it?

    Heresy is measured by orthodoxy, not by current personal opinion.
     
  10. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +1,399
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Well, if you're here to sort it out, there's going to be some showing of correct and incorrect.
    That's the only way it can be done.
     
  11. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc We are saved purely by the work and grace of God. Supporter

    +2,985
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    If the reformers were such heretics why is Martin Luther not excommunicated from the RCC anymore?

    I'm not trying to argue for or against Reformed Theology just a general question. The reformers were not hertics. They merely wanted to go by the word of God and what the word of God said. The idea of the reformation wasnt to make a new religion it was to fix what was going on with the RCC at the time. Something all Christian churches should do if you ask me since all Christians believe the Bible to be the living, breathing word of God.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  12. HosannaHM

    HosannaHM Christian Saved by Grace

    744
    +129
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    No harm, no foul. I appreciate your zeal for truth
     
  13. TedT

    TedT Member since Job 38:7

    751
    +120
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    ...a limited will is not a free will. This is doublethink, accepting that opposites which cancel each other must both be true at the time.
     
  14. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +1,399
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    You are in disagreement with both Scripture and philosophy.

    Free will is the ability to choose what one prefers without any external constraint.

    Man can make choices he prefers without external constraint (free will), but he cannot make all moral choices (limited free will), such as the choice to be sinless.
     
  15. TedT

    TedT Member since Job 38:7

    751
    +120
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    Why speak only of an external restraint rather that the internal restraint of our addiction to evil which cannot be denied...Romans 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. when this is the source of our lack of a true free will as sinners.
     
  16. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +1,399
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    I didn't write the definintions used. . .
     
  17. spiritfilledjm

    spiritfilledjm Well-Known Member Supporter

    806
    +330
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    What is orthodox does not matter to one that does not belong to the group that decides what is orthodox or not. For instance, I am not Catholic, therefore what they view as orthodox and heresy matters little to me.
     
  18. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +1,399
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Nevertheless, that is the definition of "heresy."
     
  19. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

    +2,226
    Catholic
    Married
    That's right-orthodoxy, itself, is still a matter of personal opinion, which means that heresy (that which constitutes it) is a matter of personal opinion.
     
  20. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +1,399
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    "Thou shalt not murder" is not subject to nor a matter of personal opinion.
     
Loading...