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Featured preachers are scared to say SALVATION CAN BE LOST

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by The Sun, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. StillGods

    StillGods Well-Known Member

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    the classic calvinist response...lol
    I have not said what I think about calvinism for you to look at, but already I apparently have a misunderstanding of calvinism! amazing

    which is why there is no point talking to you about it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  2. StillGods

    StillGods Well-Known Member

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    so kind.
     
  3. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    1) Not all Christians are of the same opinion on the subject matter.

    2) Even though most Christians accept that we can throw away our faith, most churches are not "fire and brimstone" types, because that's simply not how most traditional churches understand how preaching is done and what preaching is for.

    3) Preaching the word is not about manipulating the listener, but about simply faithfully speaking the word. In Lutheranism we make a very critical distinction between Law and Gospel; as such the Law is never to be preached as though it were Gospel, and the Gospel is never to be preached as though it were Law. Scaring the congregation simply isn't part of Lutheran homiletics, instead Lutheran homiletics focuses on Law and Gospel--the Law which seers the conscience and drives us to repentance and the Gospel which pronounces the forgiveness of sin, the peace we have with God, and the assurance of our salvation in Jesus Christ. That is: That as the baptized people we are sinners in the hands of a gracious God.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  4. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    While theology wars are being played... The hungry and thirsty are confused and not fed...

    Could we agree on a truce instead of turning every thread into a war zone?

    Let's say one month...

    I am ever hopeful I guess...
     
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  5. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Even harder.... you're assuming we are already saved. While I >>DO<< believe we belong to God, and it is semantics to not say I am saved... we are also told more than once to "endure until the end" while Paul, in my words, reminds is a marathon, not a sprint. A lot can happen in 26 miles. :)
     
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  6. Peter J Barban

    Peter J Barban Well-Known Member

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    At my seminary, we used to argue about the possibility of losing salvation. I can assure you that many pastors completely believe that you cannot lose your salvation and preach this with a clear conscience and conviction.

    Even if you do believe that one can lose their salvation, the more difficult issue is where to draw the line of how far can one drift from God and still be saved.

    A pastor who does preach on the impermanence of salvation runs a large risk of hurting his weaker sheep and leading his stronger sheep into pride (as when Peter declared that he would never fall away).

    If God is my father only when I am good, then the parable of the prodigal son is emptied of meaning.

    I prefer to go with Hebrews 6:9 "Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case--the things that have to do with salvation."

    So, I preach that it may be theoretically possible to lose one's salvation, but there are no examples in the Bible. It seems that losing one's salvation must be very difficult to do.
     
  7. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    I don't believe it can be lost, John 6:39, John 10:28-29, Romans 8:38-39 - I do believe we have the ability to walk away.

    We did nothing to earn, gain or deserve our salvation. I don't see how keeping it depends on our actions (unless we choose to walk away), and hearing, "you'd better do ....... or you'll lose your salvation" from the pulpit, wouldn't help anyone.
     
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  8. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    People who say salvation can be lost need to explain how the blood of Jesus' sacrifice can be nullified by sin, which He took upon Himself and conquered, in full knowledge of the sins each of us, who were dead in sin, would commit even after believing unto salvation in Him.
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I also use the more common "all hat and no cattle"....
     
  10. Guojing

    Guojing Member

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    Yes, it makes perfect sense since Paul explained clearly in Romans 5:12-19.

    If we agree that the first Adam's disobedience was so powerful until no one can renounce Satan and be free from him, without turning to Christ, it seems silly to believe that Jesus's obedience is "less powerful" that a Christian can lose his salvation by his own actions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  11. StillGods

    StillGods Well-Known Member

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    more kind words..may the Lord forgive you
     
  12. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

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    I do like your first line in this. I would put it this way though, "Be careful that while you're engaged in your theology wars that you're also making sure you're feeding the hungry and the poor and working to see people have peace."

    The reason I'd say this is it is a subject that Paul talks about and gives warnings about losing ones salvation. I'd argue some Bible verses teach that although some might disagree. But I'm with you if that's all the people do talk theology and don't really reach out to help the hungry and poor and to work that people can have peace I agree I don't think the Lord is pleased.
     
  13. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    OK lets explore this thesis.

    First of all what was spoken of by Jeremiah was an Everlasting Covenant to come in which the Holy Spirit would indwell individual believers. Further their salvation would be sealed in righteousness by the fear of Him.

    It is a big call to suggest that this was fulfilled by God for the Jews in OT time.

    There is no mention anywhere in Scripture of this being the case, Paul is silent on this, Jesus is silent on this.

    One telling indication of this not being so, was the sign given to John the Baptist regarding how he was to recognise Messiah.
    Messiah was to be the One on whom the Holy Spirit would rest and remain upon.

    This permanent and remaining presence of the Holy Spirit was, until Jesus, not seen among the Jews.

    Jesus indicated that the Holy Spirit would not be available to come with such power and fullness until pentecost, and He did not breathe on them to receive the permanent indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit until after the resurrection.

    So we have no evidence of such a significant event taking place before Jesus came and died as the sacrificial Lamb, ending the Old covenant period.

    The Old Covenant was not fulfilled and replaced until Jesus came to satisfy its requirements.
    Then God himself rent the veil from top to bottom, desecrating His temple and removing the authority given to the OT priesthood.

    This was done to mark the end of the promise of His presence with His people by means of temple worship because at that point He fulfilled His promise to permanently indwell His chosen under the New Covenant.

    There are a multitude of Scriptures to support this signficant new beginning in the relationship between God and Man.

    Never before was this Promise through Jeremiah fulfilled, This is the good news of the Gospel - God in Us...
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  14. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    One of my favs is "You're a few tacos short of a combination plate". I think Robin Williams sad that.
     
  15. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

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    So someone who lost their salvation that means the blood of Jesus was nullified? Why? Sin isn't a thing a person should willfully, continually be choosing to walk in. One doing that is a lot different than one who in a moment of not being strong fall into it. God looks at a person's heart to see if they genuinely are wanting to serve him or not. And one not in a place of being saved can be restored.....the story of the prodigal sons demonstrates this. If fact the slaying of the fated calf was a type of animal sacrifice and it's blood which did this very thing. But the Father said, "My son which was lost is found!" Luke 15
     
  16. StillGods

    StillGods Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure 100% where I stand on osas but a verse I've pondered on is:
    John 10:28-30 King James Version (KJV)
    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

    30 I and my Father are one.

    so no man means us as well- that even we cannot pluck ourselves out of the Fathers hand. we simply are not strong enough to do that, ie we are not stronger than God. it is food for thought.
     
  17. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Sadly we do have some who are on a crusade to hammer dogma and little else.
     
  18. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Why worry about whether or not you will live forever? Paraphrased Gospel verses come to mind. There is enough to think about and do today. Tomorrow will take care of itself.

    I would not think everyone is going to heaven. Narrow is the way and difficult is the path that leads to heaven.

    It is more blessed to give than to receive. By the measure you give so shall you receive.

    God will decide who to save and who will perish.
     
  19. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    Cuz they do not believe that it can.

    Jesus said, he would not lose one that the Father had given to Him.

    M-Bob
     
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