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Featured preachers are scared to say SALVATION CAN BE LOST

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by The Sun, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Name one.
     
  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This does not reflect my experience.
     
  3. StillGods

    StillGods Well-Known Member

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    poor guy.
    hope he finds a normal church one day.
     
  4. StillGods

    StillGods Well-Known Member

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    that's ok, you're calvinist so theres no point.
     
  5. StillGods

    StillGods Well-Known Member

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    did you read my last sentence.. they dont even realise they are doing it to themselves so of course you dont recognize it.
     
  6. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    No repentance, no salvation. That seems motivation enough.

    But as for the main question here, it may be that its all about which churches a person frequents. I have no doubt that some of them may never make much of a point about losing eternal life, but there are plenty that do--sometimes to excess IMO.
     
  7. Mel333

    Mel333 Member

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    Firstly, this topic is a serious accusation against preachers.

    Second, you will need to state the biblical references you're referring to justify your truth claim.

    Therefore, this truth claim has no validity and is an accusation until proven otherwise.

    You will need to validate that preachers are scared

    And

    That salvation can be lost with NT scripture. Preferably Christ teachings.
     
  8. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    But I was an Arminian for many decades until I read about Calvinism for myself. So I've seen both views first hand. And I think most of what you say comes from a misunderstanding of Calvinism.
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    all hot air and no balloon?
     
  10. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    I agree. The prophecy of the effect of the New Covenant is reflected in verses like 1John 3:9 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." So while under the Old Covenant God deals with sinfulness through threats of damnation, under the New Covenant God deals with sinfulness by changing a person's nature.
     
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  11. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    You're assume that the only reason one would do what is right was in order to be saved, which is an Old Covenant concept - obedience through fear of condemnation. Not so under the New Covenant where God changes the nature of the person such that doing what is right becomes natural to the person. Such a person doesn't need to be motivated out of fear of condemnation. 1John 4:18 "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." But perhaps that's unfamiliar to you being not part of your personal experience.

    "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9

    "This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world" 1John 5:3,4

    Thus, being eternally secure, the motivation to love is not fear, but rather because that's the nature of those born of God.
     
  12. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    They may be on the "path", but unlike many of us they haven't arrived at the end to receive eternal life. "Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor." Gal 3:24,25

    For us who have arrived by faith, Jesus says, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24
     
  13. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't where this fallacy started, ... but it's very pervasive among the clergy.

    What confounds me is how easy it is to disprove ... a quick search of the scriptures demonstrates that Jesus easily taught more of heaven than of hell, ... and once you really think about it, it makes a lot of sense.

    Did Jesus speak more about Hell than about Heaven?
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  14. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    Anglicans on the fence? Who would have thought? ;)

    I think it is possible to read the 39 Articles in a way compatible with (some strands of) Calvinism but they are certainly ambiguous (I suspect deliberately so). I would not describe Anglicanism as I have experienced it as Calvinist.
     
  15. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    Firstly 1Cor 6:9-10 is not talking about how to be saved, but rather describing the characteristic behavior of those who aren't saved. To say otherwise is basically to make salvation contingent upon one's performance, which is salvation-by-works, which you pretend not to advocate.

    You second point is easy falsify. I believe OSAS yet I don't claim that those living a lifestyle of sin are saved. So there! You might want to correct your notions as what OSAS Christians believe.

    The reason why you won't find anyone born of God (and thus "saved") who live in sin is due not to fear of condemnation, but rather because of the nature of regeneration such that "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9
     
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  16. Derek1933

    Derek1933 New Member

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    Widowed
     
  17. Derek1933

    Derek1933 New Member

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    Jesus warned His hearers, (Matthew. 7:15) “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.” Much of His ministry consisted of severely confronting the false teaching of the religious leaders of His day. (compare. Matt. 16: 11-12 & Matt. 23: 1-39) In His discourse on things to come, He warned His hearers (Matt. 24: 4-5) “See to it that no one misleads you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.”

    The apostle Peter uses most of his second letter to warn against the doctrine offered by false teachers whilst the subject matter of Jude's succinct letter is wholly devoted to the same theme. John in his letters warns repeatedly against false teachers and Paul’s final words to the elders of the Ephesians (Acts 20: 28-30) warned them about the danger of departing from sound doctrine. His final letters to Timothy and Titus repeatedly emphasized the need for sound doctrine and He instructed Titus (Titus. 1:9) that an elder must “Hold fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.” He then goes on to explain that there are many empty talkers and deceivers who are upsetting whole households through their false teaching. In his final exhortation to Timothy (2 Tim. 4: 3-4) he wrote, For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

    The Apostles' Creed is a summary of the belief, understanding, acceptance and teaching of the Apostles which, when accepted by faith, will give a firm foundation on which to build a Christian life embracing an Agape Love for God and for humankind by which an individual becomes wholly acceptable to God and is saved.
     
  18. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Jer. 32: 39-41 is specifically talking about the Jewish nation after they were scattered with the Babylon overthrow.
    Did individual Jews "turn away from God" after they returned from Babylon?
    The nation as a whole did have some Jews remaining believer up to the time of Christ.
    I would also use Jer. 18 which would apply:
    And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.
     
  19. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    You’re drowning... and call out to the life guard.

    The Life Guard rescues you.

    Are you on a path to being saved or saved?
     
  20. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    IMO the best way to preach on this subject is "staying the course". As a born again believer we are regenerated with the Holy Spirit. Now, many, including myself, quench the Holy Spirit from time to time thus the course gets altered.

    Jesus Christ of Nazareth
    13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."


    Jesus Christ of Nazareth time after time warned against the dangers of the broad road leading to a wide gate of destruction. If a Christian continues to "quench" the work of the Holy Spirit, they will for ever stay on that wide road and miss the narrow.
     
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