preacher cuts up Harry Potter books

PastorFreud

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Gerry especially, and others who agree with him,

Since you condemn withcraft unilaterally, do you also then believe LOTR is not an acceptable movie? Some here defend LOTR and attack HP. Is you position consistent? Or do you also believe The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis should be avoided?
 
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Pete Harcoff

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Originally posted by Gerry
But your lesson on witchcraft and definitions are wasted on me. Good chance I know as much about is as you. Possibly more. I am sorry you doubt the reality of witchcraft.

Woah, the "reality" of witchcraft?

Yes, there are modern day religions involving witchcraft (as has been pointed out repeatedly). Harry Potter ain't one of them. You seem to be vainly trying to lump in children's make-believe with real world Neo-Pagan beliefs. Yet, you've brought up no evidence to suggest they are in any way related except by name.
 
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Pete Harcoff

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Originally posted by PastorFreud
Gerry especially, and others who agree with him,

Since you condemn withcraft unilaterally, do you also then believe LOTR is not an acceptable movie? Some here defend LOTR and attack HP. Is you position consistent? Or do you also believe The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis should be avoided?

And let's not forget the Wizard of Oz (as I think was mentioned earlier). ;)
 
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Susan

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By the way, I can call my Pomeranian-Chihuahua a St. Bernard. There is no law prohibiting me from doing so, and it is my right to free speech.

However the second someone who has really seen a St. Bernard looks at Sassy, they will know one thing: I may call Sassy a St. Bernard, but she is in reality an overweight Pomeranian-Chihuahua mix.
 
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No gods

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Originally posted by GraftMeIn
I wonder how many people realy want to stand before God and explain to Him why they encouraged and allowed their children to read stories about witch craft, but didn't encourage them to read His Word because it was more confusing or just not as much fun.

Who does this? My son has read parts of the bible. And I'm sure he'll read more of it as it becomes age appropriate.

At the moment, I don't want him reading about and then having to explaing to him stories of men having sex with their daughters, or men ripping open pregnant women, or men slaughtering entire races of people.

But I do encourage him to read a book that holds his interest, and in the end is basically about good triumphing over evil... About someone not taking the easy way out, but fighting for what the feel is right. oohhh... how horrible a mother I am, huh?
 
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TwinCrier

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What about those?  The point is, does this man have a right to burn his book or not?  If someone burns the American flag, only those who care will be bothered by it.  IF HP doesn't represent witchcraft, why get all up in arms over some small town pastor burning a preteen fiction novel?  Obviously it's an amportant book to some peoples' beliefs.
 
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EliasEmmanuel

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Originally posted by TwinCrier
What about those?  The point is, does this man have a right to burn his book or not?  If someone burns the American flag, only those who care will be bothered by it.  IF HP doesn't represent witchcraft, why get all up in arms over some small town pastor burning a preteen fiction novel?  Obviously it's an amportant book to some peoples' beliefs.

No, the point is that something like this is pure publicity...... you do this kind of thing to get noticed, period. And bad publicity for God does us all a disservice.

-Elias
 
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Gerry

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LOL! I LOVE all these posts: "To Gerry and those who agree with him".

Sorry folks. I have rendered my opinion based on and backed up by God's written Word. It is not me you agree or disgree with. As Seebs has pointed out it is the Bible and the "interpretation" of it with which you disagree.

Again, I say, I don't write this stuff, and I don't "interpret it; that has already been done. I just read it, believe it, and apply it.

I say to those who "disagree with Gerry and those who agree with him" (lol) you all have the same option.

So if you choose to redefine or interpret the Bible or apply it in some other way, PLEASE do as you feel led of the Holy Spirit to do.

I claim no infallibility in any area at all. I am only human and subject to error as well as anyone. That is why I read the Bible and accept it literally as the infallible Word of God, insofar as it is accurately interpreted. Which is why, as Seebs pointed out, we must do some serious study and have a hard look at some of the words in the original languages to see how their interpretation applies to our present day understanding of them and the language we use.
 
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EliasEmmanuel

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i can tell you i know of someone who was influenced by potter and is now completly working their way into witchcraft......

That's unfortunate, but that's the first person I've ever heard of........ and given that a LOT of research would have to be done to get from there to real witchcraft, they no doubt read a lot of other books too.......  HP teaches you less about Witchcraft than G.I. Joe does about the Army.

And again, this is unfortunate...... but, if this kid was a Christian, where were their parents in this? And was their faith so shaky and tenuous that reading one book with fairy tale magic in it made them want to be a witch? God forbid if they'd read Cinderella when they were younger........

It is stupid for any christian to think it is fun,,, yeah fun in evil for a season but the price is higher than we know. [/B]

I'd be interested to hear about the above mentioned person's experience.... but, out of curiosity, how much do you know about HP directly?

-Elias
 
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seebs

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I would be very interested in talking to any such person. I can tell you of a person who was influenced by Harry Potter and became a Christian; the story of Harry being saved by his mom's love was used to introduce this person to the Gospel, and it worked.

I dislike being told it's stupid for me to enjoy a harmless kid's book. (Harmless to me, anyway.)

I worry because these apocryphal stories go around, and pretty soon, we have the "D&D suicide" rumors all over again - no one can come up with a single concrete example, and everyone says it's common.
 
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seebs

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Originally posted by Gerry
LOL! I LOVE all these posts: "To Gerry and those who agree with him".

Sorry folks. I have rendered my opinion based on and backed up by God's written Word. It is not me you agree or disgree with. As Seebs has pointed out it is the Bible and the "interpretation" of it with which you disagree.

Precisely! It is *YOUR INTERPRETATION* with which people are disagreeing. People are saying "that's not how I understand what the Bible says".

It's not as if disagreements on interpretation are new; we've been using the word "denomination" to refer to some of them for a very long time.

You read the word "witch" one way; I read it another. I believe the word "witch" in the Bible cannot reasonably be taken to include those meanings which have been added to the English word since the Bible was first translated; I believe it is a fairly narrowly defined word that refers to things that are real in this world.
 
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EliasEmmanuel

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Originally posted by seebs
I worry because these apocryphal stories go around, and pretty soon, we have the "D&D suicide" rumors all over again - no one can come up with a single concrete example, and everyone says it's common. [/B]

Exactly, Seebs...... it gets accepted as common knowledge (like the aforementioned DnD suicides, or razor blades in apples on Halloween) but when researched they don't stand up.......

-Elias
 
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Susan

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I have a challenge for everyone here. While I am neutral in this, not supporting or attacking Potter itself, I would be against it if someone gave some evidence.

Here is my challenge. All evidence must be from neutral or at the least reliable sources. This means "evidence" from Crossroad, CAP Alert, and Bob Larson among others like that will not win anything from me except a loud sigh.

1: Prove an actual and practicable occult practice in the books or movie, one that is at the least analogous to and preferably actual paganism.

2: Prove the existence of these Wiccan day camps, and prove that it was due to HP and NOT to outside factors like Wiccan parents.

3: Prove that enough people are led into actual witchcraft (not simply playing or costume dressing) by the books themselves.

4: Prove that the author was actually anti-Christian. This requires 3 in context quotes from interviews in reliable sources.

5: Prove that watching/reading/hearing something fictional causes someone to practice it in real life.

You must fully prove at least 4 of these points. Otherwise I remain neutral.

IMHO this is a small secondary issue. It is NOT real witchcraft, but at the most bad reading material. There are much bigger sins out there. Pride, materialism and greed as expressed in our corporate scandals, a society that considers the death penalty a legitimate way of reducing crime and abortion a legitimate way of reducing population, a society where sick sexuality is becoming the norm (like the VS show being on broadcast TV), a world where a child dies of hunger every 20 seconds :cry: and there are many more evils, most of all non-Christians everywhere dying in their sin and going to an eternal place of suffering.

We chase after one-celled algae while the sharks prepare to have us for dinner.

I am not posting in this thread any more. This is a hopeless argument, since many people seem to consider ignorance, arrogance, and accusation as new fruits from the one true God.

I would much rather post on things that matter. Even my silly posts in the Recreation Room do more good than any further discussion here. :sigh:

 

 

 
 
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Originally posted by TwinCrier
What about those?  The point is, does this man have a right to burn his book or not?  If someone burns the American flag, only those who care will be bothered by it.  IF HP doesn't represent witchcraft, why get all up in arms over some small town pastor burning a preteen fiction novel?  Obviously it's an amportant book to some peoples' beliefs.

 

Well it's an 'amportant' (ahem) issue because when someone destroys or burns any book, it reeks of thought control and bias against any idea that is contrary to your own.

People have the right to burn any book they want, although it makes them subversive.  People have the right to burn our flag, unfortunately, but that does not make them right in doing so.
 
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Originally posted by Gerry
if you choose to redefine or interpret the Bible or apply it in some other way, PLEASE do as you feel led of the Holy Spirit to do.

I claim no infallibility in any area at all. I am only human and subject to error as well as anyone. 

Thank you Gerry.  That was an incredibly mature statement. 

Understand that my stance is and has always been against the burning of books.  Any books. 

I have read 'Farenheit 451'.  have you?  I view any attempt to destroy literature that someone doesn't agree with as an attempt to control people's individual thoughts.
 
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seebs

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Originally posted by Susan

1: Prove an actual and practicable occult practice in the books or movie, one that is at the least analogous to and preferably actual paganism.

I think a case *might* be made for the crystal ball used by the "Divinations" teacher... But at the same time, perhaps it is worth observing that the Divinations teacher is clearly known by everyone present to be an amusing but harmless fraud.

I can't speak for pagans, but the Thelemites and Hermetic "magi" use wands. However, the usages are totally different; in "real" magic, the wand is mostly a symbol, and may be used as a focus when drawing diagrams, etcetra. In Harry Potter, you pretty much have to have a wand to do anything, and you point it directly at your target (or swish it around) and say funny things in pseudo-latin. In real thaumaturgy, a broken wand does not cause you to throw up slugs.


4: Prove that the author was actually anti-Christian. This requires 3 in context quotes from interviews in reliable sources.

Of particular note: There's a widely quoted interview on the subject, which is *A PARODY*. It originally appeared in _The Onion_, under the headline "Harry Potter books spark rise in Satanism".

I personally found the article absolutely hilarious because of the juxtaposition of things real kids say with the kinds of things people accused the books of promoting; as an example, one child was quoted as saying:

"Hermione is my favorite, because she's pretty and has a kitty. Jesus died because He was weak and stupid."

If that quote, or a similar one, appears in a source, I suspect it shows that the source was misled by the (IMHO, very funny) parody article.

(The article itself contains a number of statements which would certainly be blasphemous if anyone actually meant them.)


5: Prove that watching/reading/hearing something fictional causes someone to practice it in real life.

I think you could find some evidence for this, but with one crucial limitation: Children know the difference between make-believe and real stories. You will see kids who want to be a firefighter because they read about it and think it's cool. You will not generally see kids who plan to study real magic because they read about wizards. You occasionally see "wow, if magic were real, it'd be fun", but if you tell them about real magic, the normal instinct kicks in and they say "eww, that doesn't sound fun". Real magic is not like the stuff in fairy tales.


IMHO this is a small secondary issue. It is NOT real witchcraft, but at the most bad reading material. There are much bigger sins out there.

You are quite correct. Personally, I'd rather have kids read a bit of bad stuff, and thus get drawn into reading other books (like the Bible) for recreation, than have them dislike books.
 
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