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preacher cuts up Harry Potter books

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Daniella, Nov 15, 2002.

  1. EliasEmmanuel

    EliasEmmanuel Gomi No Sensei

    748
    +42
    Protestant
    At least not in the same way.

    Yeah.... and when I say that, I don't mean theologically, necessarily, but rather value-wise and culturally. HP is steeped in ideals of self-sacrifice, loyalty, and unconditional affection......

    -Elias
     
  2. Calliope

    Calliope New Member

    23
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    Kids use fantasy to learn more about reality, as they compensate by using this fantasy context to explore real life roles.

    I'm not saying that kids will directly become witches if they play at fantasy witchcraft. However, they are certainly exploring the symbolic role so in that way I can see why Christians would be concerned about it.
     
  3. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

    +1,462
    Seeker
    Married
    US-Republican
    The important thing to observe is that children are thinking about "what would the world be like if...", and they know they are doing this.
     
  4. PastorFreud

    PastorFreud Lie back on the couch.

    +173
    Protestant
    Force,

    I am a Christian. Please explain to me how witchcraft has "real" power. No Gods obviously can't be shown the way because she (or he) doesn't accept the existence of God. I do. Show me the way. What is the power that makes things fly in the air or curses that force people to do things against their will.
     
  5. coastie

    coastie Hallelujah Adonai Yeshua!

    +45
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Libertarian

    you getting all worked up over nothing. I'm not insulting your lifestyle.

    Yes there is a Vampire Cult in Seattle.

    No I am not using it for a basis on which to cut up Harry Potter books.

    I don't care about some pastor back east cutting up childrens books. It is his right as a citizen of this country.

    I don't care enough about any of those games to do any research on them.

    I apologize if you felt insulted.
     
  6. coastie

    coastie Hallelujah Adonai Yeshua!

    +45
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Absolutely hillarious... are you insulting me?
     
  7. EliasEmmanuel

    EliasEmmanuel Gomi No Sensei

    748
    +42
    Protestant
    I'd be interested in hearing about said experience..... and calling it "witchcraft" seemed to specify Wicca, as they're just about the only group that call their practices that.

    Anyway.... people may very well do the stuff you said, I'm not disputing what you've seen. But I do question what can be gathered from it, and how common it is. From my studies into the occult, there's very few groups that practice animal sacrifice, in fact I can't think of any offhand (Wiccans forbid it, so do the major "Satanic" groups). What you may have on your hands is a bunch of angry Black Metal kids practicing their own homebrewed form of Satanism....

    in any case I'd be interested in the aforementioned experience.....

    -Elias
     
  8. Mother Vashti

    Mother Vashti Veteran

    +64
    Anabaptist
    First of all, your avatar absolutely rocks.

    Second, there's no reason to be so rude. The preacher did what he did because he wanted to bring attention to his point of view. If some woman can take her top off, jiggle her breasts at 14 year-old boys and call it her "freedom of speech" (without being called an "idiot"), I think this preacher is more than entitled to similar flamboyancy, minus the name-calling.

    I'm thorougly against Harry Potter. Human fantasy is not the enemy here; it is Rowling's attempt to pack evil symbolism into a lunchbox.

    For example, Christian parents raise their children with the sense that magic is wrong, while these novels imply that magic makes one special, adventurous, and intelligent. Another example is taking the black-cloaked, broomstick riding archetype and implying that the proper interpretation that this figure is heroic.

    I'm also having a hard time taking these pagan explanation posts seriously. Harry was accepted to Hogwart's School of WITCHCRAFT, not Hogwart's School of CHRISTIAN-LIKE WORLDVIEW.
     
  9. EliasEmmanuel

    EliasEmmanuel Gomi No Sensei

    748
    +42
    Protestant


    I disagree. In HP, magic is just a vehicle for some fantastic, adventurous stories. It may as well have taken place in Hogtrons School of Space Travel with jetpacks instead of brooms.

    Well, thank you for pointing that out.... I must've misread. ;-) Seriously, if you look at the overall atmosphere of Hogwarts, it is not ruled by a Pagan worldview that emphasizes spirits and karma and suchlike.... it is a world that has a number of Christian, or at least Christian friendly elements. Magic or no magic, this is not a wiccan world. The Magic is purely physical and mechanical with little or no spiritual element.... Wizards in HP are more analogous to the mutants in X-Men than the classic wizard, in the sense that they have a gift that they can use for good or bad(remember, in Harry Potter magic is not something just anyone can learn, one must be born with it). If you can find me one shred of actual witchcraft I'd be tempted to change my opinion, but as it is the resemblance to actual Magick/witchcraft practices ends at the name.

    -Elias
     
  10. Pete Harcoff

    Pete Harcoff PeteAce - In memory of WinAce

    +64
    Other Religion
    Questions to the people opposed to Harry Potter, because they think it promotes witchcraft.

    Have you read the Harry Potter books? (even just the first one)

    Have you read up on the spiritual practices of modern Neo-Pagan religions (Wicca and so forth)?

    And if you have, please explain to me again how the two are somehow related.

    Also, if you're that worried that your children will become involved in witchcraft and magic (I'm having a hard time figuring out if we're referring to make-believe fantasy magic or modern Wiccan practices here) and turn away from their Christian faith just by reading Harry Potter, then what does it say about their faith in the first place?
     
  11. Gerry

    Gerry Jesus Paid It All

    +11
    Sorry you have having a hard time understanding. But Christians have no choice in their stand against witchcraft and wizardry. Here is a couple of Scriptures from the OT:

    1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king. {witchcraft: Heb. divination}
    2 Chronicles 33:6 And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

    Here is one more you may find interesting:

    Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

    Now from the NT:

    Ephesians 5: 19, 20: "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,...."

    A couple more jewels from the OT:

    Leviticus 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

    Check this out to get a feel for how God views this:

    1 Samuel 28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.
    1 Chronicles 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; {committed: Heb. transgressed}

    Hope this helps.
     
  12. unitedistand

    unitedistand Crying for the Bridegroom

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    Non-Denom
    Isn't it written to Shun even the apperance of evil?
     
  13. PastorFreud

    PastorFreud Lie back on the couch.

    +173
    Protestant
    From Gerry:
    Here is one more you may find interesting:
    Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

    How sad it is that we cannot truly practice our faith any more in this country. We used to be able to kill the witches. No longer. Now they have movies made about them. Were is this country going to? Hell, of course, but in the meantime.

    We can't stone our children either according to Scripture. Or marry our brother's widow unless we happen to still be single. Ah.. the old time religion is no more.
     
  14. MyJhongFist

    MyJhongFist Active Member

    534
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    Too true. How terrible it is that we can no longer murder people for the sake of difference of religion!

    Oh, how I long for the good old days of burnings and hangings, in the name of 'righteousness'.

    How ridiculous and sad...
     
  15. unitedistand

    unitedistand Crying for the Bridegroom

    192
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    Non-Denom
    unless the people in witchcraft have gone reprobate, why not witness to them?
     
  16. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

    +120
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    Single
    US-Democrat
    That verse means to "abstain from evil no matter how it appears." IOW, we are not to rob banks even for the purpose of giving the money as an offering, and we are not to engage in immorality in hopes of growing spirituually. :)   

    It does not mean "do nothing that appears evil to another Christian." if it did, considering that there is probably a Christian somewhere who would condemn everything. Even if we hid out on isolated farms, homeschooled our children, and read only our 1611 KJV Bibles, there would be a Christian who saw some part of that as evil.  :sigh:

    Sadly, the only way to avoid the judgment of some Christians is to die, and even then they judge. . . :sigh: :cry:
     
  17. Gerry

    Gerry Jesus Paid It All

    +11
    Well all I can say is, I don't write this stuff. I just quote from God's written Word.
     
  18. coastie

    coastie Hallelujah Adonai Yeshua!

    +45
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    LOL... I heard this somewhere before Gerry. ;)

    Thanks Gerry, the first verses I've seen supporting either side of the argument.
     
  19. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

    +120
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Democrat
    I believe the Bible too. I do not wish to argue or start dissent, however one can indeed believe every single word and letter of the Bible and still watch/read something for entertainment where "magic" is used as a plot device, unless such a person believes that said magic is actual and real rather than a simple storytelling device.

    That can come about through the efforts of overly literal parents/pastors/teachers just as much or even more so than it can come about through someone's own active imagination.

    The boundary between reality and fiction is not "blurred" for most people, nevertheless.
     
  20. Johnny_Thor

    Johnny_Thor New Member

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    nice 1 Gerry....always good when people use quote's from the Bible as answears.

     

     :clap:
     
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