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Pre-Trib Only Pre-tribulation Rapture Believers Safe House

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Sojourner1, Apr 10, 2011.

  1. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Togarmah is the name of the father of the first king of Armenia, and the Armenians claim descent from him. The "History of the Armenians," written by Moses of Khronosis only fifty years after the development of the Armenian alphabet, describes this in great detail, in one case actually calling Armenia "the house of Togarmah," which is exactly the term used in Ezekiel 38:5. This book claims as its source material, historical documents that had been collected at the order of Alexander the great. Armenia was (and still is) located in the area of the modern border between Turkey and Russia, that is, on the north edge of modern Turkey and thus significantly north of Syria.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
  2. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Josephus said that Magog founded the Magogites, but that the Greeks called them Scythians. The Scythians were a well known nomadic tribe in what is now called the Ukraine and the southern part of modern Russia. That is, a little north of Togarmah.
     
  3. Jether

    Jether New Member

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    I believe Togarmah is simply Turkey and Magog is Russia
     
  4. Jether

    Jether New Member

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    I strongly believe that 70th week or the 7yrs. tribulation will happen when the antichrist will make covenant with many nations(Peace Treaty) for 7yrs and not only with Israel, but also for Gentiles and rapture will come before it.
     
  5. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    The “History of the Armenians,” by Moses Khorenats’i, trans. Robert W. Thompson, Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1978, details the fact that in ancient times Armenia claimed to be "the house of Togarmah." See pages 74, 84, 86, and 92. In this translation Togarmah is spelled T’orgom. On page 86 the author calls Armenia “the house of T’orgom,” exactly the term used in Ezekiel. On page 74 he lists T’orgom as the son of T’iras, son of Gamer, son of Yapeth, son of Noah. Compare this with Genesis 10:1-3. “Now this is the genealogy of the sons of Noah: Shem, Ham, and Japheth. And sons were born to them after the flood. The sons of Japheth were Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras. The sons of Gomer were Ashkenaz, Riphath, and Togarmah.”

    This book, which was written just fifty years after the Armenian language was developed, claimed as its source material documents collected at the command of Alexander the great, the famous Greek Emperor.

    This is the oldest and most authoritative historical document on the ancient people called in scripture, and in this document, "the house of Togarmah."

    The Turks did not come to that area until around the year 1000 A.D. as they invaded, they forced everyone to convert to Islam or face terrible persecution. As a result, most Armenians fled to other lands. Many medieval Armenian manuscripts were copied in various places along the northern shores of the Black Sea, in the region of present day Ukraine. This can be clearly seen in the book “Colophons of Armenian Manuscripts, 1301-1480,” by Avedias K. Sanjian, Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1969. (A colophon is a note added at the beginning or end of a manuscript, telling who copied it. These are of historical interest because they often included comments about the conditions under which the manuscript was copied.) Specific page referens would be pointless because this is clearly stated in so many of the colophons included in this book.

    So the end result is that many of the house of Togarmah" are now living in the area which today is called the Ukraine, as well as many others of them in various other places inside modern Russia.

    This is not interpretation based on opinion, but one of the results of many years of deep study of ancient documents, spanning well over four decades of intensive research. Of all this research, the literature cited above was the most difficult to find. It took literally months of searching to find hard information (as opposed to some modern person's opinion) on the roots of the name Togarmah.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
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  6. Amazing Horse

    Amazing Horse Active Member

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    Finally found place to hide from tribulation , so we get crowns and post trib don't right ?

     
  7. Waterwerx

    Waterwerx Well-Known Member

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    Regarding Togarmah, the one thing I believe that stands out is that in relation to Israel and those other listed groups that are to go against Israel, at the time this invasion occurs, Togarmah(as an ethnic group possibly comprising of 1 or more nations) will be located in the "far north" similar to Gog and Magog.
    Ezekiel 38:6 "...the house of Togarmah from the far north and all its troops"
    Ezekiel 38:15 "...Then you(Gog) will come from your place out of the far north"

    Interestingly enough, you have in Jeremiah 51:27 the names of Ararat, Minni, Ashkenaz, along with the kings of the Medes, who go up against "Babylon". Ashkenaz = Scythians, who are the ancestors of modern Russians.
    Some believe that both Ararat and Minni refer to the Armenians, but here's my issue with that. We have no idea where exactly Ararat is. Sure, we have a single burnt out volcano named "Ararat" in Turkey, but the book of Genesis states the plural "mountains of Ararat" upon which the Ark came to rest after the flood, and from there, the EAST, they journeyed. In II Kings 19:37 and Isaiah 37:38 it is referenced as a "land of Ararat". So we basically have an uncertain location possibly referring to multiple groups(around 6) here: Iraq, Iran, Azerbaijan, Turkey, Georgia, and Armenia.
     
  8. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Crowns are not based on how well we understand scripture, but on how well we follow the parts of scripture we do understand.
     
  9. Amazing Horse

    Amazing Horse Active Member

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    Not talking about it but , about Judgement Set , if Christ when he come has rewards with him (Revelation 22:12) , then these people who don't believe or are left behind miss rewards because they miss the Judgement Set or am i wrong ?

    Judgement Set must happend before Lamb opened the scroll (Revelation 4:10 ) . So when tribulation saints are dying because of plagues from that scroll , Judgement Set must be alredy done so they miss rewards .
     
  10. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Whether or not we are taken in the rapture is not based on our belief about the timing of the rapture. It is based on whether or not we belong to Jesus. Any professing Christian left behind will NEVER get to heaven.
     
  11. Amazing Horse

    Amazing Horse Active Member

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    How do left behind never go to heaven ? If it was so why would angel from heaven preach gospel of salvation ( Revelation 14:6) and people who refused mark and believed in Christ and his gospel are appearing in heaven ( Revelation 7:9 ,Revelation 7:13-14) .
     
  12. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Those who had previously rejected the gospel will be turned over to believe the lie of the Antichrist.


    9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

    Those who turn to Christ after the rapture will only be from among those who had never rejected the gospel.
     
  13. Red Sky at Morning

    Red Sky at Morning New Member

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    I wonder...

    Those who are religiously Christian and have been unfortunate enough to attend lukewarm churches and never genuinely accepted the Gospel as they knew no better a will they be given over to that strong delusion or will the absence of certain congregation members bring to mind the possibility that they were not in the faith?

    For the record, many who reject the Gospel will embrace the alternative "great deception" message but I don't think they are quite the same group... just musing.
     
  14. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    The decree is, "because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12

    It seems quite plain to me that this condemnation involves, not simply ignorance of the truth, but instead of merely that, a conscious decision of not wishing to know the truth.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  15. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    I agree. But this confirming a covenant may just be done behind closed doors. And I agree, the rapture will come before the 70th week begins (at the 7th seal). For those left behind, perhaps the first hint the 70th week has begun will be the first trumpet - which I believe speaks of nuclear exchange.
     
  16. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Thanks for the research!
     
  17. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    I disagree. Did you not read in Rev. 15 about those beheaded showing up in heaven?
     
  18. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    I was speaking of the following scriptures:


    9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12


    3 "... Just as they have chosen their own ways, And their soul delights in their abominations, 4 So will I choose their delusions, And bring their fears on them; Because, when I called, no one answered, When I spoke they did not hear; But they did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight." Isaiah 66:3-4

    We know that many will turn to the Lord during that time, and will thereafter be faithful to him. But this will not include anyone who had consciously rejected the truth of God.
     
  19. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    It is definite, from Rev. 15 that not all who are left behind will have "strong delusion" and believe in the Antichrist Beast. ONLY GOD will know who will get "strong delusion."

    As for "Any professing Christian left behind will NEVER get to heaven" I still disagree. Some will be left behind hating sin but still trapped in it. God will do everything He can to get people into heaven, not do everything He can to keep them out! I think it is all a matter of the heart, and only God knows what is in the human heart. Perhaps you are thinking of those in open rebellion to God.

    For example, there are MILLIONS in the Orthodox churches around the world, and in the Catholic churches that may not have enough of the Word of God to even get born again. But they certainly confess Jesus as their Lord. Will they be lost? I don't think all of them will accept the Beast nor take his mark - maybe very few of them. They will lose their head, but hopefully not their salvation.

    I have just recently chatted with two different people from Russia that are hoping there is no God. They have no desire to even search for Him. They are trusting in their OWN brand of righteousness. So I agree: "a conscious decision of not wishing to know the truth." I fear there are millions in this place.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  20. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    I misspoke in saying the end time believers would contain no previously professing Christian. I agree that, in order to fall under the condemnation I spoke of, there must have been a conscious decision of not wishing to know the truth. Or, at the very least, some level of rejection of whatever truth that the particular individual in question had known.
     
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