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Handmaid for Jesus

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yes I agree the Holy Spirit is a being therefore cannot live inside us ... but indeed works in us

So you disagree with Lord Jesus then, for He says
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.










 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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We are commanded to be filled with the Holy Spirit, as the body is the Temple for the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor. 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
 
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dfw69

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So you disagree with Lord Jesus then, for He says
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
only in the sense of working in me not possessing me... if the Holy Spirit was in me I would be a god ...able to perform any miracles at my will .. I would be able to speak as god .. I would not ever sin ... I would be able to do anything I wish .. I believe one day we will indeed become as god but that day has not come yet... it is for an appointed time the Holy Spirit will change us at the rapture... the Holy spirit is truth... and that truth is in us when we believe and recieve him

Just like Jesus said he was in the father and we are in him in John 14... the father technically was not in Jesus but in fact with Jesus ... Jesus and the father are 2 different beings ..same as us ... we are in Jesus ... yet 2 different beings ... we are in Christ in the sense of one in purpose and unity ..

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. .


Yet how can the father who is a being be in Jesus who is a being? How can we be in Jesus if we all are separated beings?.. in the sense of unity and purpose I understand...but in reality?.. no I don't think so sis

I believe the father was with Jesus not inside him...it was as if the father was here on earth because Jesus was his representative and authority on earth ...

the father would have done the same things Jesus said and accomplished if he was here himself ...in that sense the father was in Jesus

I will pm you .. I have questions for you
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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I think you may be a little bit off kilter, kind of like Apollos was before he was shown the more excellent way by Priscilla and Aquilla.
Acts 18:26King James Version (KJV)
26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

There are believers that have not yet received the Holy Spirit, but all one needs to do is ask our Father to fill them.
 
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dfw69

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We are commanded to be filled with the Holy Spirit, as the body is the Temple for the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor. 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

I believe the spirit is in us when we recieve the truth of the new covenant..when we recieve the seed the word of god the gospel
 
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dfw69

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I think you may be a little bit off kilter, kind of like Apollos was before he was shown the more excellent way by Priscilla and Aquilla.
Acts 18:26King James Version (KJV)
26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

There are believers that have not yet received the Holy Spirit, but all one needs to do is ask our Father to fill them.
I'll keep asking peace sis
 
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FredVB

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dfw69 said:
1 Corinthians 15:47-54 say Adam was earthly and Jesus was from heaven .. just as we bear the earthly flesh of Adam we will bear the image or heavenly body as Christ have now ...we will be radiant as Christ by way of change from moral to immortal
First Adam was just flesh ...

Handmaid for Jesus said:
IMHO it is more like their light went out when Adam sinned. When we are regenerated in the born again experience, the light gets turned back on, but it is inside us , hidden, but enhanced by the Holy Spirit. Paul says it like this

2 Cor. 4:
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The earthen vessels are our bodies created from the dust of the Earth.Our bodies are temples for the Holy Spirit to dwell in. At the rapture, we shall be changed.And our bodies will once again clothed in light. We shall be Spirit, soul and body once again.:clap: :clap:.

Adam and Eve our first ancestors were naked until the fall as it was said, nothing said there of radiant light there. Any radiant light they or we would get is not for hiding nakedness, there is nothing wrong with unclothed innocent nakedness as created by Yahweh God. Light spoken of with spiritual meaning refers to godly truth, it hides nothing but shows what is most essential to us, life that we are to have, those without that are in darkness.

The Spirit of God is everywhere as God, but true believers in relationship with God, possible through Christ, have him in them in a special way, as his temple.
 
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Psalm3704

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It's possible that Adam and Eve were covered by light and when that light was taken from them they became naked ... but then after that God clothe them in his sacrifice to place animal skin until the light would return to man made possible through Christ

So I believe God did in fact sacrifice a lamb to clothe their nakedness and fed them ...perhaps meat was now a necessary supplement for longer life...a temporary fix until the promise of full redemption comes ... which is still yet to come ... then we will be clothe in Christ righteousness and glory and that light returns

I haven't been able to log onto this website the last 3 weeks, had problems with my old browser. Am using a new browser for this website and it seems to work, but let me clarify something and hopefully it'll make sense to you.

The bible said God covered Adam and Eve in tunics of skin. But nowhere in the the bible does it mention animal skin or an animal sacrifice. You have to realize the garden of eden was in the supernatural realm where God dwells. Meaning there's no such thing as physical death. So it's impossible that God killed any animals to make tunics for Adam and Eve. Similar to Revelation 21 and 1 Corinthians 15, before God comes to dwell with man on earth 1000 years from now, death - the last enemy - has to be eliminated. Some of the materials I've read in my research from also stated that God had covered Adam and Eve with human skin.








.
 
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dfw69

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I haven't been able to log onto this website the last 3 weeks, had problems with my old browser. Am using a new browser for this website and it seems to work, but let me clarify something and hopefully it'll make sense to you.

The bible said God covered Adam and Eve in tunics of skin. But nowhere in the the bible does it mention animal skin or an animal sacrifice. You have to realize the garden of eden was in the supernatural realm where God dwells. Meaning there's no such thing as physical death. So it's impossible that God killed any animals to make tunics for Adam and Eve. Similar to Revelation 21 and 1 Corinthians 15, before God comes to dwell with man on earth 1000 years from now, death - the last enemy - has to be eliminated. Some of the materials I've read in my research from also stated that God had covered Adam and Eve with human skin.








.

I don't bye it ... after they sinned, death of an animal was a temporary fix for mans fall and a great analogy for the gospel salvation which was prepared from the foundation of the world

Even Abel sacrifice a lamb to please god as if to say I accept your plan of salvation by faith

From the beginning God told even Satan that his kingdom would fall at the hands of the seed of a woman ... that a child born of a woman would one day come to redeem man from the power of sin and death

Abel got his religion from god or his father Adam when he offered a one year old lamb

God taught the Jews to sacrifice and be clothed with animals skin


All for the purpose to redeem man through the seed of a woman

Perhaps the true story got lost in all the translations ..perhaps on purpose to counter our messiah... regardless I believe in the good news prepared from the beginning
 
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Psalm3704

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I don't bye it ... after they sinned, death of an animal was a temporary fix for mans fall and a great analogy for the gospel salvation which was prepared from the foundation of the world

dfw69,

Nothing can physically die in a realm where immortality exist. You can't kill anything in the supernatural realm!

Heaven and hell are in the supernatural realm. If it's possible to die physically in the supernatural realm, where do you go after you die?

The only type of death possible in the supernatural realm is a spiritual death --- a separation from God --- where you get removed from the supernatural realm and get sent to the natural realm where we are. That's what happened to Adam and Eve when they were exiled from commenting the sin.

If you want to go back to the supernatural realm, than you can die a physical death.

If you disagree maybe you would like to show us where in the bible stating it's possible to physically die in the supernatural?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

More evidence against the idea Adam and Eve were covered with animal skin.

Before the sin, in Genesis 2:25, it said they were naked but not ashamed.

Genesis 2:25 New King James Version (NKJV)
And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

But after the sin, they hid themselves from God.

Genesis 3:10 New King James Version (NKJV)
So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”

dfw69,

Naked doesn't always mean nudity as they obviously weren't concerned with their appearance from Genesis 2:25.

The other things is, they were the only two people on earth at the time. Who are you gonna cover nudity from?

Here's a question. Why do you need to be covered in animal skin if they weren't ashamed of being naked as mentioned in Genesis 2:25?


Even Abel sacrifice a lamb to please god as if to say I accept your plan of salvation by faith

Are you serious using this as an argument?

Abel never lived in the supernatural realm. He lived in the natural realm on earth like we do and can kill animals to make sacrifices.









.
 
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dfw69

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dfw69,

Nothing can physically die in a realm where immortality exist. You can't kill anything in the supernatural realm!

Heaven and hell are in the supernatural realm. If it's possible to die physically in the supernatural realm, where do you go after you die?

The only type of death possible in the supernatural realm is a spiritual death --- a separation from God --- where you get removed from the supernatural realm and get sent to the natural realm where we are. That's what happened to Adam and Eve when they were exiled from commenting the sin.

If you want to go back to the supernatural realm, than you can die a physical death.

If you disagree maybe you would like to show us where in the bible stating it's possible to physically die in the supernatural?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I agree ....but where does it say heaven and earth was in a supernatural state before the fall?


More evidence against the idea Adam and Eve were covered with animal skin.

Before the sin, in Genesis 2:25, it said they were naked but not ashamed.

Genesis 2:25 New King James Version (NKJV)
And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

But after the sin, they hid themselves from God.

Genesis 3:10 New King James Version (NKJV)
So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”

dfw69,

Naked doesn't always mean nudity as they obviously weren't concerned with their appearance from Genesis 2:25.

The other things is, they were the only two people on earth at the time. Who are you gonna cover nudity from?

Here's a question. Why do you need to be covered in animal skin if they weren't ashamed of being naked as mentioned in Genesis 2:25?

You believe they has a covering which is the glory of god and lost it when they sinned and needed leaves to cover their shame?

And god had a sewing machine and made tunics and no sacrifice was needed? :)

Are you serious using this as an argument?

Abel never lived in the supernatural realm. He lived in the natural realm on earth like we do and can kill animals to make sacrifices.









.

How do you figure Adam and Eve lived in the supernatural realm?
 
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Psalm3704

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I agree ....but where does it say heaven and earth was in a supernatural state before the fall?

The supernatural realm is another dimension. Heaven and hell has always been in the supernatural. I've never said anything about earth. If anything, Adam and Eve was in the garden of eden. The garden of eden is also in the supernatural.

You believe they has a covering which is the glory of god and lost it when they sinned and needed leaves to cover their shame?

And god had a sewing machine and made tunics and no sacrifice was needed? :)

It's in the bible. There's numerous scriptures about what man will once again look like in the eternal kingdom 1000 years from now. That's the supernatural realm when God will once again live amongst men. Everything will once again be immortal. No more death.

He covered the shame from their sin with human skin.


How do you figure Adam and Eve lived in the supernatural realm?

They lived in God's presence, just as we will once again 1000 years from now mentioned in Revelation. God's in the supernatural realm.

More proof here, Genesis 3:24. There's an angel at the garden.

Genesis 3:24 New King James Version (NKJV)
So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.








.
 
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dfw69

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The supernatural realm is another dimension. Heaven and hell has always been in the supernatural. I've never said anything about earth. If anything, Adam and Eve was in the garden of eden. The garden of eden is also in the supernatural.

So you believe the garden of eden that was paradise and a place on earth was a supernatural garden? Why? Because of the tree of life and living water were present?
And Adam and Eve had a glorified body that covered them?



It's in the bible. There's numerous scriptures about what man will once again look like in the eternal kingdom 1000 years from now. That's the supernatural realm when God will once again live amongst men. Everything will once again be immortal. No more death.
True but I'm having difficulty believing that Adam and Eve wore supernatural clothing and were spiritual beings and after the fall and god covered them with skin

Bible says from the dust of the earth he formed man and breathe life into him as if to say it was the elements of the nature earth that he created man and woman ... we are of the natural state .. our bodies as well as Adam and Eve were mortal from the get go

He covered the shame from their sin with human skin.

I believe they already had human skin ... and when they sinned they saw their skin and felt naked and was ashamed and tried to cover their skin with leaves ... then god clothed there nakedness with clothes made out of the first sacrifice ...

Better yet.....they did not hide their naked body parts but instead the Bible is trying to say they were afraid of God punishment so they created a camouflage to hide from gods face ....leaves would be a good camouflage in a garden ..hoping god would not find them.....yep that makes sense

... they could have fled but still needed their abundant habitat and access to the tree of life and living waters

So what did god do for them to release them from their shame of sinning against him? He created a religion for them that would one day redeem them through the seed of a woman

Problems solved :)... no need of tunics of skin or glorified bodies and supernatural state on earth

You don't need a supernatural state to create a tree that produces pure self sustaining life fruit and pure oxygen from its photosynthesis leaves and pure water that hydrates the body properly




They lived in God's presence, just as we will once again 1000 years from now mentioned in Revelation. God's in the supernatural realm.

More proof here, Genesis 3:24. There's an angel at the garden.

Genesis 3:24 New King James Version (NKJV)
So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.








.

Oh so you believe because god walked with them in the garden that the garden must have been a supernatural state.... not necessarily... god appeared on earth many times ... on the mountain ... he visit Abraham.. and even asked Sarah why did you laugh? was in a pillar of fire pillar of clouds and was in the firey furnace and was even seen by Elijah .. well he saw his backside :) and no need of a supernatural state

Do you believe the angel is still here guarding the tree of life? ... and is the tree of life still here on earth? And the garden of eden is still here but all is in a supernatural form so we cannot see it?

your toying with me right??? ... lol ,ok ,it's cool..
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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I think the whole Earth before the fall of man was in the eternal, supernatural realm. When man sinned, there was a cosmic ripping( if you can imagine a tearing apart of the cosmos) and death entered where there was no death. It is hard for us today to imagine that because we have never experienced anything like that. We are steeped in the natural world so the supernatural world does not jive with our natural logic. Our Father gives us supernatural understanding through His Spirit. That is why Paul tells us that we should be transformed by the renewing of our minds. Romans 12:2. We have to let go of our carnal thinking in order to understand Spiritual concepts.
 
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I think the whole Earth before the fall of man was in the eternal, supernatural realm. When man sinned, there was a cosmic ripping( if you can imagine a tearing apart of the cosmos) and death entered where there was no death. It is hard for us today to imagine that because we have never experienced anything like that. We are steeped in the natural world so the supernatural world does not jive with our natural logic. Our Father gives us supernatural understanding through His Spirit. That is why Paul tells us that we should be transformed by the renewing of our minds. Romans 12:2. We have to let go of our carnal thinking in order to understand Spiritual concepts.

You are correct Handmaid.

My Sunday school taught me this as a youth and she showed me a book revealing all this. She was very much into prophecy as well. After the fall, not only did their bodies changed, but everything on earth including the animals changed. Some of the animal became carnivores killing and devouring other animals. The earth changed and also became violent with natural disasters: volcanoes, earthquakes, tornados, hurricanes etc. It was no longer peaceful. The planet was once as beautiful as the garden itself before the sin. After all enemies are eliminated including sin, God will restore the earth to it's original form.









.
 
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Psalm3704

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True but I'm having difficulty believing that Adam and Eve wore supernatural clothing and were spiritual beings and after the fall and god covered them with skin

They were covered in light just as God is. God made man in His image. God is covered in light.

Psalm 104:1-2 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 Bless the Lord, O my soul!
O Lord my God, You are very great:
You are clothed with honor and majesty,
2 Who cover Yourself with light as with a garment,
Who stretch out the heavens like a curtain.


1 Corinthians 15:42-44 New King James Version (NKJV)
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


Bible says from the dust of the earth he formed man and breathe life into him as if to say it was the elements of the nature earth that he created man and woman ... we are of the natural state .. our bodies as well as Adam and Eve were mortal from the get go

The earth was once a part of the spiritual realm. God made the earth for man to live in it and rule over the earth. So He took the dust from the earth to form man. God could of taken whatever from heaven and made man too but do you want man to rule and sinned in heaven as well?

Later, man sinned. Now where would man live if the earth stayed in the supernatural realm?


I believe they already had human skin ... and when they sinned they saw their skin and felt naked and was ashamed and tried to cover their skin with leaves ... then god clothed there nakedness with clothes made out of the first sacrifice ...

You're becoming annoying with this theory. You already acknowledge that death is not possible in the spiritual realm and here you are again pushing the idead that an animal died.

Again, you cannot have death in a realm where immortality exist.

Better yet.....they did not hide their naked body parts but instead the Bible is trying to say they were afraid of God punishment so they created a camouflage to hide from gods face ....leaves would be a good camouflage in a garden ..hoping god would not find them.....yep that makes sense

No, it does not make sense.

You think it's possible to hide from God? He knows everything about you, even the number of hair on your head. You cannot hide your body or your thoughts from God.

they did not hide their naked body parts but instead the Bible is trying to say they were afraid of God punishment

And you're not making sense. Your theory here just refuted your belief they were being covered with animal skin. If they were hiding from God to avoid punishment and not from being nude, why would God cover them in animal skin?

The other thing is Adam and Eve were the only two people on earth. Who cares if you were nude 24/7. Makes no sense God had cover them with animal skin.

Plus Adam and Eve already made fig leafs and covered themselves. If they already had skin and was already covered, why do you need to be covered even more?

Here's your answer. It's because they were afraid.

Genesis 3:10 New King James Version (NKJV)
So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”

How many people do you know would be afraid at being nude? How many people do you know is scare to take off their clothes? Everyone takes their clothes of daily whether if it's to change clothes, take a shower or use the toilet. The worst case scenario for taking your clothes off would be embarrassment, not fear.

Since they were afraid, it's impossible they hid themselves due to nudity. Naked doesn't always mean nudity. What they were afraid of was having God find out they had sinned by eating from the tree God told them not to. Their light that went out from their bodies and covered with were covered with sin.


... they could have fled but still needed their abundant habitat and access to the tree of life and living waters

You mean like how Jonah tried to flee from God and got swallowed up by a whale?

You really think you can hide from God?

So what did god do for them to release them from their shame of sinning against him? He created a religion for them that would one day redeem them through the seed of a woman

No He did not. God doesn't want religion, He wants a relationship with everyone.

Problems solved :)... no need of tunics of skin or glorified bodies and supernatural state on earth

You keep pushing at this idea and someday you'll get what you want looking like Adam after the fall covered in shame and will always be in contempt while the rest of us will shine like the stars....forever.

Daniel 12:2-3 New King James Version (NKJV)
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.


Oh so you believe because god walked with them in the garden that the garden must have been a supernatural state.... not necessarily... god appeared on earth many times ... on the mountain ... he visit Abraham.. and even asked Sarah why did you laugh? was in a pillar of fire pillar of clouds and was in the firey furnace and was even seen by Elijah .. well he saw his backside :) and no need of a supernatural state

Do you know the difference between hearing God versus seeing God visually? Everyone can hear God...spiritually. No one except Moses saw God face to face.

You're misunderstanding the bible thinking God had physically appeared to Abraham. God only appeared face to face with Moses in Mount Sinai. And after seeing God face to face, Moses' face had radiated.

Exodus 33:11 New King James Version (NKJV)
So the Lord spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. And he would return to the camp, but his servant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, did not depart from the tabernacle.

Exodus 34:29-30 New King James Version (NKJV)
29 Now it was so, when Moses came down from Mount Sinai (and the two tablets of the Testimony were in Moses’ hand when he came down from the mountain), that Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone while he talked with Him. 30 So when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone, and they were afraid to come near him.

Tell me where does the bible say Abraham saw God face to face in person? The bible said God spoke to Abraham. Does God not speak to you spiritually?

dfw69,

If God visited Abraham in person and audibly told him to sacrifice Isaac, do you think Abraham would of stressed out as he did. It won't had been a test of faith had God appeared to him in person.

What kind of test of faith would it be if you saw God in person and knew it's Him and He told you to sacrifice your son, would you be worried? Of course not! You know God will instantly resurrect him.

It doesn't take much faith believing God when you see Him in person face to face.


Do you believe the angel is still here guarding the tree of life? ... and is the tree of life still here on earth? And the garden of eden is still here but all is in a supernatural form so we cannot see it?

your toying with me right??? ... lol ,ok ,it's cool..

The bible said an angel is at the entrance of the garden of eden. That's enough proof the garden was in the spiritual realm.

You need to take the bible more seriously.

And no, the 4 angels bound at the Euphrates river is not in the natural realm.













.
 
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dfw69

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They were covered in light just as God is. God made man in His image. God is covered in light.

Psalm 104:1-2 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 Bless the Lord, O my soul!
O Lord my God, You are very great:
You are clothed with honor and majesty,
2 Who cover Yourself with light as with a garment,
Who stretch out the heavens like a curtain.


1 Corinthians 15:42-44 New King James Version (NKJV)
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Just to be clear your referring to a literal light shining right?

Light can be referred as truth and holiness ... but light is also just light... god is both truth and light .. that he shines like the sunlight .. the shekinah glory right?

You make a good point about creating man in his image .. I have to think about that one




The earth was once a part of the spiritual realm. God made the earth for man to live in it and rule over the earth. So He took the dust from the earth to form man. God could of taken whatever from heaven and made man too but do you want man to rule and sinned in heaven as well?

Later, man sinned. Now where would man live if the earth stayed in the supernatural realm?

still not sure if that's correct... that the earth was in the spiritual realm ...




You're becoming annoying with this theory. You already acknowledge that death is not possible in the spiritual realm and here you are again pushing the idead that an animal died.

Sorry if you think this is annoying ... as I said before... I don't believe as you do that the earth was in the spiritual realm ...so death is a possibility in the natural world which I believe Adam and Eve were created in ..which is not annoying but a fact

Again, you cannot have death in a realm where immortality exist.

Again immortality only existed as long as they ate of the fruit of the tree of life and drank from the living waters available to them only in the garden of eden that was in the natural world

And in the natural world death was possible if they sinned by eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and in doing so the tree of life and fountains of living waters was taken from them ... causing death to the mortals



No, it does not make sense.

You think it's possible to hide from God? He knows everything about you, even the number of hair on your head. You cannot hide your body or your thoughts from God.

Yes we know that but they were mortal and afraid so they hid... it natural to hide from god if they knew god was about to punish them ... they were told they would die if they eat of the tree that they were forbidden too..

Even in the future man is gonna try and hide from god in the dens and caves and say to the rocks fall on us and hide us from the wrath of him that sits on the throne and from the lamb for the great day of his wrath has come and who shall be able to stand


they did not hide their naked body parts but instead the Bible is trying to say they were afraid of God punishment

And you're not making sense. Your theory here just refuted your belief they were being covered with animal skin. If they were hiding from God to avoid punishment and not from being nude, why would God cover them in animal skin?

It went hand in hand ... nude and shame of sin and fear of punishment...animal skin solved all their problems.. ok :)



The other thing is Adam and Eve were the only two people on earth. Who cares if you were nude 24/7. Makes no sense God had cover them with animal skin.

I don't want to stand naked before God.. do you?... I prefer clothing ... I expect white robes

You know Jesus is seen with white robe as well as face shown as the sun... both light and clothing is presented ...

Plus Adam and Eve already made fig leafs and covered themselves. If they already had skin and was already covered, why do you need to be covered even more?

They hid from god .. camouflage style

Here's your answer. It's because they were afraid.

Genesis 3:10 New King James Version (NKJV)
So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”

How many people do you know would be afraid at being nude? How many people do you know is scare to take off their clothes? Everyone takes their clothes of daily whether if it's to change clothes, take a shower or use the toilet. The worst case scenario for taking your clothes off would be embarrassment, not fear.

Since they were afraid, it's impossible they hid themselves due to nudity. Naked doesn't always mean nudity. What they were afraid of was having God find out they had sinned by eating from the tree God told them not to. Their light that went out from their bodies and covered with were covered with sin.

Not necessarily... no one wants to stand in front of God naked bro... would you go before a king naked? Or in public... maybe if your a nudist ... most normal people put on their nicest clothing before entering into the house of god out of respect




You mean like how Jonah tried to flee from God and got swallowed up by a whale?

You really think you can hide from God?

No of course not but if man knows punishment is coming they may have no choice but to try revelation 6:16



No He did not. God doesn't want religion, He wants a relationship with everyone.

James 1:27



You keep pushing at this idea and someday you'll get what you want looking like Adam after the fall covered in shame and will always be in contempt while the rest of us will shine like the stars....forever.

Daniel 12:2-3 New King James Version (NKJV)
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.


What?.... are you saying just because I don't agree with you I will rise in shame and contempt? That this is a condition of salvation to accept what you believe is true?

The idea I push is that I will receive a covering of glory from my messiah who fulfilled the law for me ... that he is my salvation... who cares if Adam had a covering of glory or not ... it's just a conversation not of importance


Do you know the difference between hearing God versus seeing God visually? Everyone can hear God...spiritually.

god also has a literal voice and spoke to the prophets literally


No one except Moses saw God face to face.

You're misunderstanding the bible thinking God had physically appeared to Abraham. God only appeared face to face with Moses in Mount Sinai. And after seeing God face to face, Moses' face had radiated.

Exodus 33:11 New King James Version (NKJV)
So the Lord spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. And he would return to the camp, but his servant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, did not depart from the tabernacle.

Exodus 34:29-30 New King James Version (NKJV)
29 Now it was so, when Moses came down from Mount Sinai (and the two tablets of the Testimony were in Moses’ hand when he came down from the mountain), that Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone while he talked with Him. 30 So when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone, and they were afraid to come near him.

Tell me where does the bible say Abraham saw God face to face in person? The bible said God spoke to Abraham. Does God not speak to you spiritually?

dfw69,

If God visited Abraham in person and audibly told him to sacrifice Isaac, do you think Abraham would of stressed out as he did. It won't had been a test of faith had God appeared to him in person.

What kind of test of faith would it be if you saw God in person and knew it's Him and He told you to sacrifice your son, would you be worried? Of course not! You know God will instantly resurrect him.

It doesn't take much faith believing God when you see Him in person face to face.

God appeared to Abraham when he visit him and told Sarah she would have a son and that he was about to go visit sodom




The bible said an angel is at the entrance of the garden of eden. That's enough proof the garden was in the spiritual realm.

Angels can manifest on earth

You need to take the bible more seriously.

I do

And no, the 4 angels bound at the Euphrates river is not in the natural realm.

The river is in the natural realm ..yes the 4 Angels that are bound in the spiritual realm ... and yet there are many Angels all around us in the natural world

Hebrews 13:2
 
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Just to be clear your referring to a literal light shining right?

I don't know how we'll look exactly. I just know from scripture the righteous will be able to shine as bright as the sun someday.

We could of looked like the picture below.

1280x720-2UV.jpg


Or like those in the video below of those being rapture.


Or in the photo in the link below. Nevertheless, there are overwhelming evidence of God being covered in light, Jesus covered in light and man will once again be covered in light after the millennium. And no evidence an animal was killed in the garden, just a theory.

https://graceintorah.net/2015/09/08/garments-of-light-part-i/

Skins of Light
There are traditions from both Jewish and Christian sources that say that before the fall, the skin of Adam and Chavah was luminous. In other words, they were “covered” by divine light and would “glow”, so to speak. I hope this triggers your mind to make some connections to Moses’ face and Messiah, but we will get there soon enough in this series.



This idea or tradition isn’t random. The Hebrew language is VERY idiomatic, metaphoric, and figurative. Contranyms, homonyms (sound alike words), parables, and many other literary devices are used heavily to help us to understand spiritual concepts through the experience of natural things.[4] Hebrew speaks to us through our senses and imagination. It draws simple “pictures” that even a child can understand. As the old adage goes, “a picture is worth a thousand words”. In our case, it is neither coincidence nor chance that the Hebrew word for light and for skin sound exactly the same: ohr. Look carefully at the following:

אוֹר Light (aleph, vav, resh)

עוֹר Skin (ahyin, vav, resh)

The only difference is the first letter (read from right to left). Light begins with aleph, a letter heavily associated with God,[5] and skin begins with ahyin, the letter that also means eye. Both aleph and ahyin are silent letters. They have no sound aside from the vowel associated with them. In our words above, the vowel is shown by the letter vav with the dot on top, called a cholem vav. The last letter is a resh, an “r” sound that pictographically means “a man’s head”.

I realize that if you are new to Hebrew, what I’ve written above might be a little confusing, but I urge you to bear with me. This gets really interesting from here on out. If I simply look at the pictographic meaning of these words, both have a heart that connects. Vav means to link, connect, or hook together. It is also the number 6, the creation day for both beast and man. In our passage in Genesis, we are dealing with a beast (snake) that speaks like a man.

If we look at the other Hebrew letters for each word, we can learn what light and skin connects or links one with. In the case of light, my head (resh) is connected to God (aleph), my Father. But in the case of skin, my head (resh) is connected to only what my eyes (ahyin) can see (flesh).


What kind of skin?
We typically assume that God slaughtered an animal and made coverings of fur for the first couple. But the text doesn’t say that this is what God did. There is no mention of Him slaughtering an animal. Our old assumption isn’t necessarily wrong, but the skin (ohr) that God made could have been (mortal) human skin. The verse says that God made (asah) ohr (skin) and clothed Adam and Chavah with it. Perhaps, after losing their garments of Light, God made them garments of (mortal human) skin. This is a viable possibility in the Hebrew and one to consider.



Light can be referred as truth and holiness ... but light is also just light... god is both truth and light .. that he shines like the sunlight .. the shekinah glory right?

It's both. The light that covers us is a reflection of our righteousness. How bright you'll shine someday will reflect your righteous acts. Some will shine like the sky, others will shine as bright as stars but Jesus who's the most righteous shines up to 7 times brighter than the sun.

Daniel 12:3
Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.

Matthew 13:43
Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Acts 26:12-14 New King James Version (NKJV)
12 “While thus occupied, as I journeyed to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, 13 at midday, O king, along the road I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who journeyed with me. 14 And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’

still not sure if that's correct... that the earth was in the spiritual realm ...

Well if the earth at the time of the garden of eden was in the natural realm and not the spiritual realm, than you shouldn't have any problems finding the garden of eden.

Why don't you post an actual photo of garden of eden from the internet.

I can tell you for a fact, no one has ever found the garden of eden simply because you can't see it. It's in the spiritual realm.

But go ahead and post a photo if you disagree.

Sorry if you think this is annoying ... as I said before... I don't believe as you do that the earth was in the spiritual realm ...so death is a possibility in the natural world which I believe Adam and Eve were created in ..which is not annoying but a fact

Well if the earth was in the natural realm at that time, than how come Adan and Eve didn't die a physical death after their sin?


Again immortality only existed as long as they ate of the fruit of the tree of life and drank from the living waters available to them only in the garden of eden that was in the natural world

The fruit from the tree of life was not eaten for immortality. They lived in the spiritual realm where immortality already existed. You just assume that like most people because the word "life" is used in it. But that's not what the tree of life was for.

Look at the tree of life mentioned in Revelation 22:2.

Revelation 22:2 New King James Version (NKJV)
In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

dfw69,

Since the tree of life only bares 12 fruit each month and if the tree of life was for immortality, that would mean every year only 144 people (12 x 12 = 144) would be alive and everyone else would die.

There's 7 billion people alive today. How will all these people stay alive forever when the New Jerusalem descend upon the earth after the millennium?


And in the natural world death was possible if they sinned by eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and in doing so the tree of life and fountains of living waters was taken from them ... causing death to the mortals

Than why didn't they immediately die a physical death after their sin?

God said they would surely die if they ate from the wrong tree. God did not say an animal would die if they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

So why didn't they immediately die.......physically?


Even in the future man is gonna try and hide from god in the dens and caves and say to the rocks fall on us and hide us from the wrath of him that sits on the throne and from the lamb for the great day of his wrath has come and who shall be able to stand

Revelation 6:15-16 New King James Version (NKJV)
15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

dfw69,

And how many people do you know literally talks to mountains and rocks?

And it's just a few cornballs talking to rocks and mountains, it said all the kings, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man. This is pretty much everyone.

You think the whole world will literally be talking to rocks and mountains in the near future?

You can't figure out this is figuratively a metaphor?


It went hand in hand ... nude and shame of sin and fear of punishment...animal skin solved all their problems.. ok :)

Let's hope Jesus doesn't cover you in animal skin during the rapture. Everyone at the wedding wearing clean bright white robes will look at you and strangely.

Revelation 19:7-8 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.


I don't want to stand naked before God.. do you?... I prefer clothing ... I expect white robes

You won't be naked but you might get animal skin if you keep pushing for it.

No of course not but if man knows punishment is coming they may have no choice but to try revelation 6:16

You're gonna try talking to rocks and mountains?


What?.... are you saying just because I don't agree with you I will rise in shame and contempt? That this is a condition of salvation to accept what you believe is true?

This is not about salvation and has nothing to do with it. Not everyone in heaven will be in the same status. Some will shine like the heavens, some will shine like the stars and some will be covered in shame forever. All of them are saved. I'm not sure if being alive in shame forever is exactly paradise either, but God gives people what they want if they push for it hard enough. People prophecise their future daily and not realize it.

Read the book of Proverbs.



The idea I push is that I will receive a covering of glory from my messiah who fulfilled the law for me ... that he is my salvation... who cares if Adam had a covering of glory or not ... it's just a conversation not of importance

You have to be sanctified. His salvation is conditional, having to listen and follow Him.



god also has a literal voice and spoke to the prophets literally

You don't know for a fact that God spoke to prophets in an audible voice. I'm not saying He didn't or did but unless it's documented in the bible, you shouldn't be making claims not specifically stated in the bible.

The only ones we know who heard an audible voice were the disciples listening to Jesus during the Olivet Discourse.

God appeared to Abraham when he visit him and told Sarah she would have a son and that he was about to go visit sodom

Angels can manifest on earth

No He did not. The bible said Abraham saw 3 men. Read it everything carefully, the entire chapter of Genesis 18. They were 3 angels. "Angels can manifest on earth: Hebrews 13:2" Read the whole dialogue. It doesn't even sound like God speaking in the manner as He does revealed in other parts of the bible. God always speaks with authority, always appear (appear doesn't always mean visibly. It means to manifest, to reveal: John 14:21) individually and most often introduces Himself and as God. Not only that, Abraham was even gonna wash one of the men's feet. Abraham was gonna touch God! You don't touch God! Not even to wash His feet! And Sara was actually able to see God and spoke to Him?

Where does it say that God became flesh to come to earth other than as Jesus? Abraham was merely addressing them as lord.

God spoke to Abraham in other parts of the bible but that's not God in Genesis 18. They were His angels as messengers and Abraham was being hospitable. Hebrews 13:2

Hebrews 13:2 New King James Version (NKJV)
Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels.

Read the entire 3rd paragraph of this link below where it starts off saying "According to Jewish tradition, when Abraham said, "My Lord"........

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Scripture/Parashah/Summaries/Vayera/Visitors/visitors.html

For some strange reason I can't copy and paste the page. It's a good site to save if you want to learn Jewish customs and how they interpret the bible.​

======================

The Oak of Mamre (also called the Oak of Sibta), at Hirbet es-Sibte, two kilometres (1.2 miles) southwest of Mamre near Hebron.[1] Also called The Oak of Abraham[2] is an ancient tree which, in tradition, is said to mark the place where Abraham entertained the three angels[3] or where Abraham pitched his tent.











.











.
 
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dfw69

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I don't know how we'll look exactly. I just know from scripture the righteous will be able to shine as bright as the sun someday.

We could of looked like the picture below.

1280x720-2UV.jpg


Or like those in the video below of those being rapture.


Or in the photo in the link below. Nevertheless, there are overwhelming evidence of God being covered in light, Jesus covered in light and man will once again be covered in light after the millennium. And no evidence an animal was killed in the garden, just a theory.

https://graceintorah.net/2015/09/08/garments-of-light-part-i/

Skins of Light
There are traditions from both Jewish and Christian sources that say that before the fall, the skin of Adam and Chavah was luminous. In other words, they were “covered” by divine light and would “glow”, so to speak. I hope this triggers your mind to make some connections to Moses’ face and Messiah, but we will get there soon enough in this series.



This idea or tradition isn’t random. The Hebrew language is VERY idiomatic, metaphoric, and figurative. Contranyms, homonyms (sound alike words), parables, and many other literary devices are used heavily to help us to understand spiritual concepts through the experience of natural things.[4] Hebrew speaks to us through our senses and imagination. It draws simple “pictures” that even a child can understand. As the old adage goes, “a picture is worth a thousand words”. In our case, it is neither coincidence nor chance that the Hebrew word for light and for skin sound exactly the same: ohr. Look carefully at the following:

אוֹר Light (aleph, vav, resh)

עוֹר Skin (ahyin, vav, resh)

The only difference is the first letter (read from right to left). Light begins with aleph, a letter heavily associated with God,[5] and skin begins with ahyin, the letter that also means eye. Both aleph and ahyin are silent letters. They have no sound aside from the vowel associated with them. In our words above, the vowel is shown by the letter vav with the dot on top, called a cholem vav. The last letter is a resh, an “r” sound that pictographically means “a man’s head”.

I realize that if you are new to Hebrew, what I’ve written above might be a little confusing, but I urge you to bear with me. This gets really interesting from here on out. If I simply look at the pictographic meaning of these words, both have a heart that connects. Vav means to link, connect, or hook together. It is also the number 6, the creation day for both beast and man. In our passage in Genesis, we are dealing with a beast (snake) that speaks like a man.

If we look at the other Hebrew letters for each word, we can learn what light and skin connects or links one with. In the case of light, my head (resh) is connected to God (aleph), my Father. But in the case of skin, my head (resh) is connected to only what my eyes (ahyin) can see (flesh).


What kind of skin?
We typically assume that God slaughtered an animal and made coverings of fur for the first couple. But the text doesn’t say that this is what God did. There is no mention of Him slaughtering an animal. Our old assumption isn’t necessarily wrong, but the skin (ohr) that God made could have been (mortal) human skin. The verse says that God made (asah) ohr (skin) and clothed Adam and Chavah with it. Perhaps, after losing their garments of Light, God made them garments of (mortal human) skin. This is a viable possibility in the Hebrew and one to consider.





It's both. The light that covers us is a reflection of our righteousness. How bright you'll shine someday will reflect your righteous acts. Some will shine like the sky, others will shine as bright as stars but Jesus who's the most righteous shines up to 7 times brighter than the sun.

Daniel 12:3
Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.

Matthew 13:43
Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Acts 26:12-14 New King James Version (NKJV)
12 “While thus occupied, as I journeyed to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, 13 at midday, O king, along the road I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who journeyed with me. 14 And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’

I believe Jesus is going to give us that light for the first time....Adam was mortal from the beginning Jesus was from above and only Jesus is able to give us that light because of his work on earth ...

The whole Adam was covered in skin is just wierd ... Adam was already in skin and the covering was clothing


Well if the earth at the time of the garden of eden was in the natural realm and not the spiritual realm, than you shouldn't have any problems finding the garden of eden.

It's obviously taken away.. it no longer exist on earth ... perhaps it was destroyed by the flood of Noah day ..who knows

Why don't you post an actual photo of garden of eden from the internet.

It's gone

I can tell you for a fact, no one has ever found the garden of eden simply because you can't see it. It's in the spiritual realm.

But go ahead and post a photo if you disagree.

It once was on earth now it's gone psalms3704



Well if the earth was in the natural realm at that time, than how come Adan and Eve didn't die a physical death after their sin?

their death was the inevitable outcome of the lack of diet from tree of life and living waters ... death began to take its course inside the body through decay the moment the elements of proper nutrition was taken away ...

man had to sow the ground to obtain food but the ground was cursed by god for sin and nothing could grow and give nutrients that the garden provided




The fruit from the tree of life was not eaten for immortality. They lived in the spiritual realm where immortality already existed. You just assume that like most people because the word "life" is used in it. But that's not what the tree of life was for.

Look at the tree of life mentioned in Revelation 22:2.

Revelation 22:2 New King James Version (NKJV)
In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

dfw69,

Since the tree of life only bares 12 fruit each month and if the tree of life was for immortality, that would mean every year only 144 people (12 x 12 = 144) would be alive and everyone else would die.

There's 7 billion people alive today. How will all these people stay alive forever when the New Jerusalem descend upon the earth after the millennium?

Who know how much nutrition the food of god will give a man ... one fruit could give a man a 100 years of life ... don't assume it's not enough... one bite could give a years worth of immortality




Than why didn't they immediately die a physical death after their sin?

God said they would surely die if they ate from the wrong tree. God did not say an animal would die if they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

So why didn't they immediately die.......physically?

I explained above ...

God intended to fill the earth with men but death was a punishment for sin... and yet he made reconciliation through the sacrifice he taught them



Revelation 6:15-16 New King James Version (NKJV)
15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

dfw69,

And how many people do you know literally talks to mountains and rocks?

And it's just a few cornballs talking to rocks and mountains, it said all the kings, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man. This is pretty much everyone.

You think the whole world will literally be talking to rocks and mountains in the near future?

You can't figure out this is figuratively a metaphor?

Did you know there are underground cities? People already hiding from the world out of fear .. plus you have bunkers and preppers preparing for a manmade apocalypse or from revelation events




Let's hope Jesus doesn't cover you in animal skin during the rapture. Everyone at the wedding wearing clean bright white robes will look at you and strangely.

Revelation 19:7-8 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.




You won't be naked but you might get animal skin if you keep pushing for it.
I believe Jesus will clothe me in his righteousness


You're gonna try talking to rocks and mountains?
I have no reason to hide from my father and from his son my salvation




This is not about salvation and has nothing to do with it. Not everyone in heaven will be in the same status. Some will shine like the heavens, some will shine like the stars and some will be covered in shame forever. All of them are saved. I'm not sure if being alive in shame forever is exactly paradise either, but God gives people what they want if they push for it hard enough. People prophecise their future daily and not realize it.

Read the book of Proverbs.





You have to be sanctified. His salvation is conditional, having to listen and follow Him.





You don't know for a fact that God spoke to prophets in an audible voice. I'm not saying He didn't or did but unless it's documented in the bible, you shouldn't be making claims not specifically stated in the bible.

The only ones we know who heard an audible voice were the disciples listening to Jesus during the Olivet Discourse.



No He did not. The bible said Abraham saw 3 men. Read it everything carefully, the entire chapter of Genesis 18. They were 3 angels. "Angels can manifest on earth: Hebrews 13:2" Read the whole dialogue. It doesn't even sound like God speaking in the manner as He does revealed in other parts of the bible. God always speaks with authority, always appear (appear doesn't always mean visibly. It means to manifest, to reveal: John 14:21) individually and most often introduces Himself and as God. Not only that, Abraham was even gonna wash one of the men's feet. Abraham was gonna touch God! You don't touch God! Not even to wash His feet! And Sara was actually able to see God and spoke to Him?

Where does it say that God became flesh to come to earth other than as Jesus? Abraham was merely addressing them as lord.

God spoke to Abraham in other parts of the bible but that's not God in Genesis 18. They were His angels as messengers and Abraham was being hospitable. Hebrews 13:2

Hebrews 13:2 New King James Version (NKJV)
Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels.

Read the entire 3rd paragraph of this link below where it starts off saying "According to Jewish tradition, when Abraham said, "My Lord"........

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Scripture/Parashah/Summaries/Vayera/Visitors/visitors.html

For some strange reason I can't copy and paste the page. It's a good site to save if you want to learn Jewish customs and how they interpret the bible.​

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The Oak of Mamre (also called the Oak of Sibta), at Hirbet es-Sibte, two kilometres (1.2 miles) southwest of Mamre near Hebron.[1] Also called The Oak of Abraham[2] is an ancient tree which, in tradition, is said to mark the place where Abraham entertained the three angels[3] or where Abraham pitched his tent.











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We going off subject
 
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