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Douggg

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We indeed teach that "all Israel will be saved," because the scriptures explicitly state that. But that only means all of Israel who are living at the time that happens. And you have seen repeated posts made by myself, clearly pointing out that when Messiah finally comes, He will purge out all the rebels from among them. And ALL the rest will turn to Him in true faith. So, although all Israel will indeed be saved, that salvation will come about in the same way anyone is saved today, by a true and living faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

And not a single respected dispensational teacher holds any doctrine at variance with that.
James, allow me to explain what is going on. It's not really about dispensationalism.

It's about - them who believe that the church has become Israel, some of whom attempt to repackage it and say some of Israel has become the church, are attacking dispensationalism with a manufactured two peoples of God doctrine (which only oddities like John Hagee elude to), as a defense to their the church has become Israel replacement theology doctrine.

This is all cloaked as "New Covenant" theology.

The arguments being presented are all redirects.

Attacking dispensationalism, and separately oddities like John Hagee, and claiming there is a some counter to the one way to be saved, with a two peoples of God doctrine at work - doesn't make replacement theology sound at all.

It just muddies the waters. Replacement theology simply doesn't fit into the bible's eschatology picture.
 
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keras

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One of the most amazing things I see among you characters is all the DNA talk. Like God can't tell the 12 tribes from the Gentiles because of what DNA says. God knows ALL THINGS. He is not confused.
Right: God knows who are His people.
And they aren't those who reject His Son, those who embrace the LGBT lifestyle, those who arrogantly assert their own strength without any trust in their maker. Isaiah 22:11b-14 is their fate.

Who are the children of the Living God today? Romans 9:24-26 makes it plain and verse 27 makes it plain that of the Jews; only a remnant will remain.

So, Choose wisely, if you have chosen to believe that you are good enough to be raptured instantly to heaven, while the Jews eventually turn to God, then you have believed a lie, because scripture just doesn't say those things will happen.
 
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Douggg

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Right: God knows who are His people.
And they aren't those who reject His Son, those who embrace the LGBT lifestyle, those who arrogantly assert their own strength without any trust in their maker. Isaiah 22:11b-14 is their fate.

Who are the children of the Living God today? Romans 9:24-26 makes it plain and verse 27 makes it plain that of the Jews; only a remnant will remain.

So, Choose wisely, if you have chosen to believe that you are good enough to be raptured instantly to heaven, while the Jews eventually turn to God, then you have believed a lie, because scripture just doesn't say those things will happen.
No-one, except the coming son of perdition, is beyond repenting and being saved. And if done before the rapture takes place will go to the place that Jesus has prepared for them, in His Father's house - which is in heaven.
 
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jgr

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One of the most amazing things I see among you characters is all the DNA talk. Like God can't tell the 12 tribes from the Gentiles because of what DNA says. God knows ALL THINGS. He is not confused.

Here's what God said about physical DNA at the beginning of covenant history:

Genesis 17
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

He accorded it no significance, and never has.

His only interest is in each person's spiritual DNA.

Faith and obedience.
 
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BABerean2

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You have replaced Israel with the church. Am I speaking falsely?

Part of "all the house of Israel" became the Church on the Day of Pentecost, based on the scripture below.

Do you deny this fact?


Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


This agrees with what Paul said about the "remnant" in Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 9:27, and Romans 11:1-5.

.........................................

Christ is the fulfillment of the seed promise made in Genesis 12:3.
This fact is confirmed by Matthew 1:1, and Galatians 3:16.

Your doctrine's dependence on genealogy is revealed by Paul in his letter below.


Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


.
 
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Choose Wisely

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Here's what God said about physical DNA at the beginning of covenant history:

Genesis 17
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

He accorded it no significance, and never has.

His only interest is in each person's spiritual DNA.

Faith and obedience.
LOL, the guy that does all the chirping about DNA suddenly goes impotent.
 
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Right: God knows who are His people.
And they aren't those who reject His Son, those who embrace the LGBT lifestyle, those who arrogantly assert their own strength without any trust in their maker. Isaiah 22:11b-14 is their fate.

Who are the children of the Living God today? Romans 9:24-26 makes it plain and verse 27 makes it plain that of the Jews; only a remnant will remain.

So, Choose wisely, if you have chosen to believe that you are good enough to be raptured instantly to heaven, while the Jews eventually turn to God, then you have believed a lie, because scripture just doesn't say those things will happen.

I could post some scriptures that would prove otherwise. But until the scales are removed from your eyes, what good would it do? Oh, what the heck, I believe in miracles.

Deut
29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the Lord thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
31 (For the Lord thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

BTW, I do believe that I am good enough to be raptured to heaven. What works do you think I need to do to be worthy enough?



 
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in·ter·est
/ˈint(ə)rəst/
noun
  1. 1.
    the state of wanting to know or learn about something or someone.
If that is the meaning of interest, then God is not interested in anything at all. For He already knows everything there is to know, and is thus incapable of learning.
 
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keras

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BTW, I do believe that I am good enough to be raptured to heaven. What works do you think I need to do to be worthy enough?
It isn't works that will save you, although good works will be rewarded.
It is whether your faith in God is strong enough the withstand the testing that you and everyone alive will soon have to go through.
You will be here when that test comes, do not doubt it; 1 Peter 4:12, 1 Corinthians 3:11-15
 
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It isn't works that will save you, although good works will be rewarded.
It is whether your faith in God is strong enough the withstand the testing that you and everyone alive will soon have to go through.
You will be here when that test comes, do not doubt it; 1 Peter 4:12, 1 Corinthians 3:11-15
I know it's not works that bring salvation, but you wanted to know if I thought I was good enough. So I thought you maybe wanted to give a list of works that are required.

And I don't plan to be here when when the hour of testing comes. You should be more concerned with those claiming to be Jews and are not. We've got a lot of that going on.

Rev 3
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
 
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Danoh

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No-one, except the coming son of perdition, is beyond repenting and being saved. And if done before the rapture takes place will go to the place that Jesus has prepared for them, in His Father's house - which is in heaven.

Doesn't look that way, neither at the very end of Isaiah, nor near the very end of Revelation.

In both, many are depicted as having ended up eternally damned.

And that is just two of many places in Scripture where this eternal damnation ended up the end for quite a large number of people.

Dispensationally, or not.

Romans 5:1
 
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Douggg

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Doesn't look that way, neither at the very end of Isaiah, nor near the very end of Revelation.

In both, many are depicted as having ended up eternally damned.

And that is just two of many places in Scripture where this eternal damnation ended up the end for quite a large number of people.

Dispensationally, or not.

Romans 5:1
Matthew 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
____________________________________________

But it is not God's desire than any should perish.

2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

____________________________________________
Daniel 12:
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
 
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Danoh

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Zechariah 12
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Dispensationally,

None of "Israel who are living at that time" in the future will have pierced Him. But Judas, Caiaphas, and the Jewish rulers are those who pierced Him, and they are those who will be present, and who will look upon Him, and mourn for Him, and repent.

And the spirit of grace and supplications is poured upon the house of David. Is that not the house of David in the era of Judas, Caiaphas, and the Jewish rulers?

And if the house of David from that era is saved, why is not the house of David of all time saved?

Why would the God who loves Israel not save all Israel of all time?

Or are Judas, Caiaphas, the Jewish rulers, and "Israel who are living at that time", the only ones deserving of salvation?

The rebels are purged in Zechariah 13. But they are first saved in Zechariah 12.

Israel is the concept of a Physical agency through which God would operate on this very Physical Earth - a kingdom of Priests.

An agency an Israelite was entered into by Physical circumcusion - which was to be symbolic of his circumcision of his heart (faith towards God), as he began to live out the Shema - and "all this law" by faith, that he was taught and brought up in, as a child.

His being an Israelite did not automatically grant him entry unto that agency relationship with God.

Rather, those God given rituals as a means of both his entry into and of his maintainance of said agency relationship with God by faith, (circumcision of the heart) did.

God loves Israel, the agency.

Which only applies to an Israelite in a right relationship with said agency.

Scripture is repeatedly clear on this.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
 
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Danoh

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Matthew 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
____________________________________________

But it is not God's desire than any should perish.

2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

____________________________________________
Daniel 12:
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Agreed.

At the same time, places in Scripture like the latter half of Romans 1, etc., relate that there is such a thing reaching a point where one's is a reprobate mind - a mind no longer able to even receive reproof.

Ephesians 4 refers to that as being past feeling.

1 Timothy 4 refers to that as a conscience seared with a hot iron.

And so on.

Such are lost.

I suspect that most of those countless Gentiles left to their own conscience as their law after God gave them up all those centuries ago, ended up eternally lost.

That only those who went on to live right by their conscience - as Abraham had been doing back then when God called him based on his having lived right by his conscience - may have ended up saved, throughout the centuries.

Rom. 5:6-8 - in each...our stead.
 
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