Pre-Trib View

[Totally Transformed]

Pastor Chuck Smith has an e-book on the teaching of the pre-trib rapture. It's very long, but I've found it to be an excellent resource and helped reaffirm my confidence in a pre-tribulation rapture.

Anyone who wishes to view Pastor Smith's teaching can do so by clicking on the following link:

http://calvarychapel.com/library/smith-chuck/books/ttatc.htm

 

[kimber1]

thanks for that link! i too believe in the pre trib rapture! and we're studying the entire book of Revelation Sunday nights at church. I love how my pastor has a way of explaining it so it makes more sense to me!!

 

[Dayton]

Thanks for the link! I believe in the pre-trib rapture, but I don't think it will happen in my lifetime.

 

[Brain Damage]

Revelation 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.


Revelation 6:11
Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

 

[Totally Transformed]

thanks for that link! i too believe in the pre trib rapture! and we're studying the entire book of Revelation Sunday nights at church. I love how my pastor has a way of explaining it so it makes more sense to me!!

Your very welcome, it's my pleasure Kimber. Oh, that sounds wonderful that your pastor is teaching Bible prophecy.

 

[Totally Transformed]

Thanks for the link! I believe in the pre-trib rapture, but I don't think it will happen in my lifetime.

You're very welcome, Dayton, it's my pleasure. You know back in the mid 80's I remember Hal Lindsey talking about the rapture and his book The 1980's Countdown to Armegeddon. As each day passed I was expecting to get raptured. Here I am 20 years later and it still hasn't happened yet, but one thing is for sure it's getting closer.

 

[jayswife29]

I too have always believed the same thing, about it happening during my lifetime. As much as it excites me to leave this world behind, I worry about it too. I wonder who I won't be seeing anymore, and I am afraid of heights and I would have to say Heaven is as high up as you can get. Seriously, I wonder if the rapture(whenever it comes) will be as scary as I picture it.

 

[Totally Transformed]

I too have always believed the same thing, about it happening during my lifetime. As much as it excites me to leave this world behind, I worry about it too. I wonder who I won't be seeing anymore, and I am afraid of heights and I would have to say Heaven is as high up as you can get. Seriously, I wonder if the rapture(whenever it comes) will be as scary as I picture it.

Oh no Jayswife it won't be scary for you at all. Do you think our great God would do something to scare you? You will feel perfectly safe and secure when we hear that "trump of God." We are going to be changed from this mortal body into our immortal bodies. You know in the Bible where it says in heaven there will be no tears, or pain? You will not be sad, afraid, or any of the frail fears we feel now. So rest assured it will be glorious!

 

[jayswife29]

I hope so, because I don't think theres enough motion sickness pills in this world to prepare me for a trip that fast!! I do worry though about actually coming face to face with Jesus, as much as I look forward to it I am in great awe when I think that someday I will be in the presence of the Lord.

 

[sracer]

Here at Calvary Chapel of Prescott, we're blessed with a pastoral staff that is faithful too and teaches right out of the Word of God.

I believe in a pre-trib rapture. And as Totally Transformed said, it won't be scary at all. That day is all about good things for born-again Christians.

The imminency of the rapture is intended for us to have our "spiritual bags packed, and ready to go at a moment's notice." (as I mentioned in a previous thread) That means a sense of urgency in loving people, forgiving people, asking for forgiveness, daily prayer. We shouldn't put these things off thinking that we can do them tomorrow...or next week... or....

We shouldn't be pre-occupied with the rapture... that is why we aren't supposed to know when it will happen. Imagine what life would be like for us if we knew the rapture was to occur at 3:57PM EST next Tuesday.

 

[Atkin]

Oh no Jayswife it won't be scary for you at all. Do you think our great God would do something to scare you? You will feel perfectly safe and secure when we hear that "trump of God." We are going to be changed from this mortal body into our immortal bodies. You know in the Bible where it says in heaven there will be no tears, or pain? You will not be sad, afraid, or any of the frail fears we feel now. So rest assured it will be glorious!

Jesus walked on water when he had a flesh body just like ours.

What exactly is that immortal body going to look like? Our minds and hearts will be cleansed of greed, hate, lust, laziness, lack of faith etc but our flesh would not change.

Our bodies would not be much different from our current flesh bodies which is the same as Jesus's flesh body, in which He performed miracles and walked on WATER and was TRANSFIGURED even before HE WAS CRUCIFIED.

BEFORE HE WAS CRUCIFIED he walked on water and was transfigured

Matthew 17 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

 

[postrib]

Originally posted by sracer in Post #10:
...I believe in a pre-trib rapture...

Note that no scripture promises anyone a rapture before the tribulation. Jesus says that he will come to gather us together "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), and Paul says that Jesus' coming to gather us together must "destroy" the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). We Christians will go through the tribulation (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13).

.

Originally posted by sracer in Post #10:
...The imminency of the rapture...

Note that the Bible nowhere says that Jesus can come to gather us together at any time, but says the opposite (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, compare Matthew 24:29-31).

In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Paul says that the apostasy and abomination of desolation must occur before the day Jesus comes to gather us together (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4), and that Jesus' coming (parousia) to gather us together must destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:8). We Christians will go through the reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13).

In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, and 1 Corinthians 15:52, Paul is referring to the same "coming" of Jesus and the same "gathering together" of the saints and the same "trumpet" and the same "clouds" as Matthew 24:29-31, which says all these will occur "after the tribulation." The scriptures don't teach a 3rd coming or a 2nd rapture of the church.

The apostles knew from the beginning that the rapture could not be imminent because Jesus told Peter that he would grow old and be killed (John 21:18-19), and Jesus told the apostles that they would first have to have the Holy Spirit come upon them, after which they themselves would be witnesses for Jesus "in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth" (Acts 1:8). Also, Jesus told Paul that he must bear witness of him at Rome (Acts 23:11). The doctrine of imminence would make Jesus' statements in John 21:18-19, Acts 1:8, and Acts 23:11 into lies.

.

Originally posted by sracer in Post #10:
...We shouldn't put these things off thinking that we can do them tomorrow...

Amen, but note that belief in an imminent pre-trib rapture isn't required to be motivated to love people and to reach the lost and to remain repentant and to work diligently every day for the Lord because we never know when we or any other person is going to die (Luke 12:20). And we know we will be judged by our works (Matthew 25:26, 30; 2 Corinthians 5:10-11; 1 Peter 1:17; Revelation 2:23; Luke 12:47-48).

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Originally posted by sracer in Post #10:
...we aren't supposed to know when it will happen...

I believe we are supposed to know, for Jesus laid it out plain and simple for us believers that we must go through the coming tribulation (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13), that he will come to gather us together "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), and that his coming to gather us together must "destroy" the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8); "Take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things" (Mark 13:23).

 

[sracer]

It is the contention of many that the Bible does promise rapture instead of tribulation.

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The Tribulation is described as God's wrath:
(KJV, 1Th 1:9-10) "For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; [10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

Additional references: Rev 6:16-17; 11:18; 14:19; 15:1,7; 16:1,19; 1 Th 5:9; Zeph 1:15,18


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We are promised to be delivered from God's wrath:

(KJV, 1Th 1:10) "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

(KJV, 1Th 5:9-11) "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, [10] Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. [11] Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do."

If the rapture is post-trib, then how can anyone be "comforted" knowing that they'd have to go through the Tribulation?

(KJV, Rev 3:10) "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
---------

In a nutshell, if the Tribulation is God's Wrath, and we are to be spared from God's wrath, then it logically flows that we won't be around during the Tribulation.

I could go on to describe the work of the "Restrainer", the differences between the "Day of Christ" and "Day of the Lord", the lack of any mention of the church during the Tribulation...

I just wanted to provide some (there's a lot more) scriptural evidence to support a pre-trib view (and that it isn't just "made up").
Of course it is easier to see how a pre-trib view fits if one adheres to the concept of dispensationalism.

 

[ephod]

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[sracer]

Yes, I do adhere to dispensationalism... because the promises that God made to the nation of Israel are different than those made to us through Jesus.

Not all of the promises made to Israel have been fullfilled, so to conclude that God abruptly made a new convenant, leaves some of God's promises that He did not keep.

I understand that a person's view of when the rapture occurs, (if they believe in it at all), is dependent upon the overall theological themes that a person subscribes to. You can state that dispensationalism is a false doctrine... Heck, some claim that the Tri-unity of God is a false doctrine too.

But for the sake of this particular thread, it seems that a pre-trib rapture is more consistent with a God that loves us so much that He gave His only Son.

(edit to fix "have" to "gave")

 

[ephod]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[jayswife29]

ephod; if we do live during the tribulation how do you figure we will be protected through it? Doesn't it say in Revelation that the beast is given power to make war with and overcome the saints? How can that be if we are sealed and protected?

 

[Atkin]

Yes, I do adhere to dispensationalism... because the promises that God made to the nation of Israel are different than those made to us through Jesus.

Not all of the promises made to Israel have been fullfilled, so to conclude that God abruptly made a new convenant, leaves some of God's promises that He did not keep.

Christ was the promise made through Abraham. Let no man deceive any Israelite today that God owes them

gold, luxuries, nations etc.

The penalty for such deception would be exceedingly painful from God for who is the human being to evaluate and judge God regarding statements about promises not being kept.

Again I emphasise, there is no gold waiting for Israelites, for God does not promise carnal human lustful wealth in Gold and riches without Christ.

Christ is the entire bedrock of the promise made to Abraham, not fleshly riches and petty carnal wealth and idols.