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Pre, Mid, Post?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Gideon4God, Mar 28, 2003.

  1. pre

  2. mid

  3. post

  4. other

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  1. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    The wisdom that is from above never brings you into fear. If a doctrine you are reading or hearing puts fear in you, and does not comfort, encourage or edify you or glorify Christ or emphasise the Gospel of Peace, reject it (or shelve it) cos it aint from the Holy Spirit.

    Jas 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

    telling Christians that they have to go thru God's wrath whether half of it or all of it never fits with James 3:17. The Holy Spirit in you will not testify to your spirit that this is truth.
     
  2. ladylove

    ladylove Active Member

    741
    +0
    You are in error, Andrew. I NEVER said that Christians are going thru God's
    wrath, but according to the pre-wrath position which I support, Christians WILL go thru most of the tribulation that is Satan's wrath. Read the book.
     
  3. TWells

    TWells Active Member

    510
    +15
    Other Religion
    post
     
  4. Jephunneh

    Jephunneh Active Member

    703
    +0
    Anyone who would study and rightly divide the word of truth would be PRE.
     
  5. SBfaithful

    SBfaithful Member

    256
    +1
    Baptist
    Paul did not title it the Blessed Hope because we would suffer Gods wrath.
    Pre-trib
     
  6. Gideon4God

    Gideon4God Regular Member

    367
    +0
    Other Religion

    But we will endure tribulaiton...
     
  7. TWells

    TWells Active Member

    510
    +15
    Other Religion
    He called it the Blessed Hope because its the return of Our Lord not because he cant keep his elect from his wrath like he did in previous judgements.
     
  8. Gideon4God

    Gideon4God Regular Member

    367
    +0
    Other Religion

    When does the wrath of the Lord take place? 
     
  9. good4u

    good4u <font color="darkblue"><font size="3"><b><i><font

    +45
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Republican
    When the elect are removed from Satan's wrath in the midst of the tribulation, Gideon for God.
     
  10. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

    508
    +0
    Christian
    Note that tribulation and comfort aren't opposed to each other:

    "I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation" (2 Corinthians 7:4).

    "Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God. For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ. And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation" (2 Corinthians 1:3-7).

    "To comfort you concerning your faith: That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto. For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation" (1 Thessalonians 3:2-4).

    Could all of us Christians who will be in the tribulation (Revelation 6:11, 7:14, 9:4, 12:17, 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 15:2, 16:15, 18:4, 20:4) still not be appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9) because during the tribulation nobody in heaven says God's wrath "is come" until near the end of the tribulation, after the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15, 18), in the 7 vials of God's wrath (Revelation 15:1; Revelation 16), and none of the 7 vials are poured out on those of us who have obtained salvation? I believe we are even blessed at the 6th vial (Revelation 16:15), that we might endure to the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (Daniel 12:11-12), which is the day I believe Jesus will come back (Revelation 19).

    Doesn't 2 Timothy 2:15 refer only to rightly dividing between the words of the original scriptures, which were written all together without any spaces between them, and without any capitals or punctuation marks, so that if we wrote out our Bible today in the style of the original scriptures it would look like this: "andgodsaidlettherebeafirmamentinthemidstofthewatersandletitdividethewatersfromthewaters" (Genesis 1:6)? If we don't divide this up right couldn't we wrongly get the idea that "sand" was what divided the water: "a firmament in the midst of the water: sand, let it divide the waters," and go on to wrongly teach that Genesis 1:6 is referring to sand bars?

    Would any dividing up of the words of the scriptures ever cause us to arrive at the idea that there is any division between believers in Christ? Doesn't it say "there should be no schism in the body" (1 Corinthians 12:25), "for by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Corinthians 12:13); "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all" (Ephesians 4:4-6)?

    Doesn't true, Biblical dispensationalism not divide, but unite? "In the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ" (Ephesians 1:10); "Ye have heard of the dispensation... That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body" (Ephesians 3:2, 6). Fellowheirs with who? Of the same body as who?

    Who are the two parties Paul refers to when he says: "Hath made both one... to make in himself of twain one new man" (Ephesians 2:14-15)?

    "Ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel... ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints" (Ephesians 2:12, 19).

    "Some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree" (Romans 11:17).

    No one should lose the blessed hope (Titus 2:13) when the rapture doesn't happen before the tribulation. No one should lose the hope even if they are at the point of death in the great tribulation, for our hope for eternal life in Jesus Christ (Titus 1:2, 2:13, 3:7) goes beyond any suffering in this life and any dread of death (Philippians 1:21-23, 1 Corinthians 15:19, John 12:25, Revelation 2:10, Hebrews 2:15).

    "In hope of eternal life"
    "That blessed hope"
    "The hope of eternal life"
    (Titus 1:2, 2:13, 3:7).
     
  11. Reader Nilus

    Reader Nilus SISU

    +230
    Eastern Orthodox
    I am Amil, and we do go though the Tribulation which some of the Brethren have already experenced in horrors beyond description.
    Jeff the Finn
     
  12. Sun_flwer

    Sun_flwer Well-Known Member

    +208
    Non-Denom
    Private
    I'm pre-trib...........
     
  13. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

    +3,753
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    Hiya Jeff ole' buddy!

    Long time no see!
    Welcome to ChristianForums.
    I had no idea you were in Oregon as well, just up the creek from me!

    Perhaps we'll bump into one another some day.
    God Bless!
    P70
     
  14. Romanbear

    Romanbear Member

    394
    +9
    Christian
    Hi everyone; :wave:
    I believe in a pretrib Rapture.
    1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    Most people read this so fast that they forget that we meet the Lord in the air.Not on the Ground. It is my Hope that this is pretribulation rapture. For what other reason would we meet Him in the Air. since when He returns to earth his feet touch down on Mount Siani. I've been told that He doesn't come until the last trump.If we meet Him in the air then He hasn't come yet when the rapture occurs.If it were anyother way then we wouldn't be able to return with Him to do battle with Satan and his demons.
    Just Can't wait for this to happen. :clap: I hope it's soon
    In Christ;
    Ray
     
  15. Zorobabel

    Zorobabel Gardener King

    157
    +2
    Calvinist
    Engaged
    Post-tribulation.
     
  16. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

    +3,753
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    Air, Greek :"aer" meaning the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air. Is is used 7 times in the NT (Acts 22:23, 1Cor. 9:26,14:9 Eph. 2:2, 1Thess 4:17, Rev. 9:2, 16:17) and is used of the air immediatly around and within us (as our breath), or it is used to refer to the spiritual realm and is to be distinguished from the air where clouds are and Higher.

    In Short:
    Our feet don't have to leave the ground for us to be "caught up" in this "air".


    I'm not questioning this position, but I am concerned at how you apparently arrived at it. [I've Been told......]

    Have you actually read this yourself, or are you just going by what "you've been told"?, and if so, how much more have you been told that you haven't checked yourself?


    Just curious, how long would you have to be "away" before you would be satisifed that you were indeed "returning"?
    7 years?
    3.5 years?
    1 year?
    a month? a week? a day? an hour?
    immediatly?

    Agape
     
  17. look

    look A New Species of Man®

    814
    +9
    Word of Faith
    Single
    US-Constitution
    I have to agree with Andrew on this one...God has not given us the spirit of fear, but rather He has given us the Spirit of Power, Love and of a sound mind 2TIM 1:7 :wave:
     
  18. look

    look A New Species of Man®

    814
    +9
    Word of Faith
    Single
    US-Constitution
    Just of curiosity, how can the twenty four elders be wearing crowns before the Lamb breaks the first seal? Those crowns won't be given untill the BEMA judgement.

    Which reminds me, let me ask everybody, "When is the BEMA judgement? I know, but I would like to hear your responses that would explain how the elders got those crowns. Remember, the apostles will form the latter twelve elders. Twelve elders from the Old Testament and twelve elders from the New testament.

    Ta-Ta!
     
  19. Zorobabel

    Zorobabel Gardener King

    157
    +2
    Calvinist
    Engaged
    The belief that any doctrine that creates fear is wrong is absolutely ridiculous.

    Revelation 14:7
    He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water."

    1 Peter 2:17
    Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king

    Revelation 19:5
    Then a voice came from the throne, saying: "Praise our God, all you his servants, you who fear him, both small and great!"

    And I find it very hard to believe that any true believer would be fear-striken in the events of the end time. They would have to be of very little faith.
     
  20. look

    look A New Species of Man®

    814
    +9
    Word of Faith
    Single
    US-Constitution
    Go look and find the greek word that the word "fear" was translated from and look it up in a greek dictionary. You will find that the word "fear" means reverence, respect and honor. Not to be scared...
     
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