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Pre flood culture

stevevw

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We do have a clue when we are told: Genesis 6 5 "And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

Perhaps most would agree that we can use our imagination for good and for evil. Imagination is a powerful tool that can be harnessed for both positive and negative purposes. It's the source of creativity, innovation, and empathy, but it can also lead to harmful ideologies and actions. Here’s how it can play out:

For Good:​

  • Innovation and Problem-Solving: Imagination fuels scientific discoveries, technological advancements, and creative solutions to complex problems.
  • Art and Literature: It brings beauty and meaning into the world through art, literature, music, and other forms of creative expression.
  • Empathy and Understanding: It helps us put ourselves in others' shoes, fostering compassion, empathy, and social progress.

For Evil:​

  • Deceptive Schemes: Imagination can be used to devise harmful plans, frauds, and manipulations.
  • Negative Ideologies: It can create and propagate harmful ideologies or destructive behaviors.
  • Fear and Paranoia: It can fuel unfounded fears and anxieties, leading to negative mental and emotional states.
Ultimately, how we choose to use our imagination is up to us. We have the ability to direct it towards constructive and positive endeavors, creating a better world for ourselves and others.
I try to imagine what sort of culture would a completely sinful world take on. We can imagine Sodom and Gormorrah and the idol worship during the time of Isreals wilderness.

But I think there was a time when all the white noise of more modern society was absent and we had these hunter gatherers becoming encultured and the dominant culture was around belief. Everything was about mystical beliefs. If you notice these early cultures were centered around temples and paganistic beliefs.

You could imagine the stars were easily seen without the glare of modern times and this caused people to believe that the stars, moon, sun, and nature were like gods, messages from the gods. But along with that were the paganistic beliefs and ceremonies and perhaps even sacrifices that caused them to build their own gods and so everything they did was focused on anti God beliefs.

Not necessarily going around raping and pillaging or having sex dens and all that. But human nature had become a cult in itself where all attention, thinking, beliefs and behaviour was geared against god in a spiritaul sense. Which really is what is the basis for modern day rejection of the one true God in that its really a spiritual battle and sin is the consequence of an anti God spirit.

So it may be that humans had developed to a point of having such cult like beliefs that opposed God that this is what it means that every attention was about sin. They had developed their beliefs to a point where they became godlike themselves and had to be cut back down and humanity reset.
 
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Diamond72

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You could imagine the stars were easily seen without the glare of modern times
I have only seen that once because you have to be hundreds of miles from the city lights to really see what the sky looks like and it is amazing. I never thought about the impact that would have on people because we give very little consideration to the sky now.
 
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stevevw

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I have only seen that once because you have to be hundreds of miles from the city lights to really see what the sky looks like and it is amazing. I never thought about the impact that would have on people because we give very little consideration to the sky now.
My parents had a property our west in NSW. The nearest neighbour was around 10 ks away. I use to lay on my back and look at the night sky and you could see the swirl of the Milky Way and shooting stars everwhere.

But even then I think it was still different back 10 to 12,000 years ago because there was no lights and just scattered fires for light. We know when we see such beauty and awesome sights we get a sense of being in the presense of something greater.

I can understand that back then when there was not all the white noise of rationalism and all the different ideas filling our heads that these people were able to get a sense of something spiritual happening and its a wonder they came up with all these religious ideas to explain what they were seeing.

Not just that we know for example with Indigenous knowledge that they had insights and were in tune with nature itself. We see from many of these ancient cultures geometry such as the Sacred and Golden Ratios within their glyth and artifacts. The Pyramids are aligned with star formations and the Equinox.

So they were very much able to understand things differently to how we do today. We are discovering strange and wonderful secrets of their past and this is giving us an insight into where they were at 1,000s of years ago.
 
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Diamond72

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If Noah's flood happened say within the last 10 to 12,000 years then what is the most likely time scale. I know scholars give a time of 2350BC but is this really the case. Does it match possible real events around 4,375 years ago. If thats the case then all cultures before this were preflood. Egypt began around 3,000BC so that makes them pre flood but also surviving into post flood. The same for all other cultures at that time.

Yes, Noah's flood was in 2350Bc. The Tigris Euphrates river valley is a flood zone so it is difficult to tell one flood from another.​

Comparison Egypt and Mesopotamia:​

  • Timeline: Both regions saw the rise of complex societies around the same time, but the exact dates can vary slightly.
  • Contributions: Each region contributed uniquely to the development of early human civilization, with Egypt known for its monumental architecture and Mesopotamia for its early cities and writing systems.
So, while both regions developed early civilizations around the same time, it's not accurate to say one began significantly earlier than the other. They both played crucial roles in the dawn of human civilization. Similarities between Egypt and Mesopotamia include the fact that they were early societies located in the Near East, developed writing systems, were located near major rivers, and had hierarchical social structures, as well as polytheistic religions.
So the flood myth had already entered into humankinds cultures even way back then.
The Bible was an Oral tradition going back to Adam long before the Bible was written. Before the Bible was written down, many of its stories and teachings were passed down orally from generation to generation. This oral tradition stretches back to the earliest times, including the narratives about Adam and Eve and the events of early human history as described in the Book of Genesis.
Sea levels rose around 300 feet. Though this was suppose to happen over a 5,000 year period there were inundations during that time that flooded coastlines and wide areas.
The sea level is still rising. Miami had to set their building code 3 feet higher than before.
Overall this period was an extinction level event
Yes when the glaciers melted 90% of the world population went extinct. I like the Whooly Mamonths and the Saber tooth Tigers. I even have a copy of a skull of a Saber tooth. Of course Turtles and Alligators continue to survive. Maybe because they can handle very wet conditions. They have turtles in zoos in Florida that are over 300 years old.
Cultures may have built on these stories but I think they would have originated from this time.
The question is: What do we and what do we not consider Scripture. God really does watch over HIS word so that we can know the truth.
But the basic archotype story is based on a real event that the whole world and all cultures experienced long ago.
God wants us to know and He gives us a lot to study. Artifacts and the natural evidence like fossils.

My mom read a book called The Source .The book uses artifacts uncovered at the archaeological site to explore different periods in history, providing a rich tapestry of the lives and cultures of the people who lived there. It's a fascinating read that spans over 1,000 pages, offering deep insights into the history and culture of the region

The book is fiction. They make up a story to tell about the artifacts they find. Michener meticulously researches and incorporates real historical facts, events, and cultural practices, giving readers an immersive experience of different epochs in the history of the land of Israel.
 

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stevevw

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Yes, Noah's flood was in 2350Bc. The Tigris Euphrates river valley is a flood zone so it is difficult to tell one flood from another.​

Was the Tigris Euphrates river flood in 2350BC a major global flood. If so how big do you think it was.

Comparison Egypt and Mesopotamia:​

  • Timeline: Both regions saw the rise of complex societies around the same time, but the exact dates can vary slightly.
  • Contributions: Each region contributed uniquely to the development of early human civilization, with Egypt known for its monumental architecture and Mesopotamia for its early cities and writing systems.
So, while both regions developed early civilizations around the same time, it's not accurate to say one began significantly earlier than the other. They both played crucial roles in the dawn of human civilization. Similarities between Egypt and Mesopotamia include the fact that they were early societies located in the Near East, developed writing systems, were located near major rivers, and had hierarchical social structures, as well as polytheistic religions.
We also now have evidence that societies developed a lot earlier than Mesopotamia and Egypt with sites like Gobekli Tepe and the other sites like it all around Eastern Turkey. Or South American and even Asian megalithic societies like Egypt that came perhaps before Egypt now being discovered.

The pre flood world was very sophisticated. It developed to a point where God needed to destroy it. It wasn't just due to sin but also that they defied God by using knowledge of Gods creation against Him. It seems the further we go back to the Garden of Eden the greater our knowledge was. Not in a modern tech way but in understanding Gods creation and nature.
The Bible was an Oral tradition going back to Adam long before the Bible was written. Before the Bible was written down, many of its stories and teachings were passed down orally from generation to generation. This oral tradition stretches back to the earliest times, including the narratives about Adam and Eve and the events of early human history as described in the Book of Genesis.

The sea level is still rising. Miami had to set their building code 3 feet higher than before.

Yes when the glaciers melted 90% of the world population went extinct. I like the Whooly Mamonths and the Saber tooth Tigers. I even have a copy of a skull of a Saber tooth. Of course Turtles and Alligators continue to survive. Maybe because they can handle very wet conditions. They have turtles in zoos in Florida that are over 300 years old.

The question is: What do we and what do we not consider Scripture. God really does watch over HIS word so that we can know the truth.
I think if theres one thing that is clear with all these human experienced and the stories that have come is that God sent a flood to destroy humankind because they had got to a point where everything they did was sin. That a great man and a group of others who are fullfilled in Noah and his family came to re- start humankind.

There is the universal truth because our experiences gave birth to this truth and its etched into our consciousness and conscience. This can ultimately never be verified or disproven by science or archeology but is a belief that comes from our own lived experiences over time.
God wants us to know and He gives us a lot to study. Artifacts and the natural evidence like fossils.
I agree and I think even though we don't have the knockdown evidence, the type skeptics and atheists would want we do have some interesting evidence that at least shows great floods and other archeological evidence.

The best evidence I think is that every culture has the same flood story. It goes beyond myth as its too much a coincidence. Often the best evidence is the myths and stories because they are actually based on true events and lessons learnt. But skeptics will dismiss it all as myth and make believe.

But if we take the archeological evidence and the experiential evidence then a stronger case can be made. But at the end of the day it is by faith that we believe Gods word and I don't think some anomelies in the evidence will change that.
My mom read a book called The Source .The book uses artifacts uncovered at the archaeological site to explore different periods in history, providing a rich tapestry of the lives and cultures of the people who lived there. It's a fascinating read that spans over 1,000 pages, offering deep insights into the history and culture of the region

The book is fiction. They make up a story to tell about the artifacts they find. Michener meticulously researches and incorporates real historical facts, events, and cultural practices, giving readers an immersive experience of different epochs in the history of the land of Israel.
I love exploring ancient history and then finding archeological evidence for it. It doesn't have to be biblical. But often these unrelated histories somehow wind their way back to the bible.

The bible is also used to determine where to dig and we often find the people and places mentioned in the bible. So this puts flesh on the bones of stories andd make them more true and real.

As time goes by we discover more and it always seems to further support the bible rather than not.
 
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Diamond72

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We also now have evidence that societies developed a lot earlier than Mesopotamia and Egypt with sites like Gobekli Tepe and the other sites like it all around Eastern Turkey.
Gobekli Tepe is a fascinating site that has reshaped our understanding of early human history.

I think if theres one thing that is clear with all these human experienced and the stories that have come is that God sent a flood to destroy humankind because they had got to a point where everything they did was sin
Genesis 6:5 (KJV):

"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

Here, "imagination" refers to the inclinations and desires of the human heart.


It doesn't have to be biblical.
The natural evidence God gives us is overwhelming and amazing. It is clear that He wants us to know what He has done and that is why He gives us what He does. Even the atheists gather the evidence of God for us. Even if they deny the very evidence that they discover and gather.

Ecclesiastes 2:26 (NIV):​

"To the person who pleases Him, God gives wisdom, knowledge and happiness, but to the sinner He gives the task of gathering and storing up wealth to hand it over to the one who pleases God."
 
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stevevw

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This is like the third time I have shown this.
View attachment 359173
Sorry I wasn't sure if it was a major enough flood to be attributed as Noahs flood. I though you were showing me just one area of a larger flood model that incorporated more areas such as with the Younger Dryas floods.

OK so we have evidence for a local flood occuring around that time. Is this the evidence used for Noahs flood happening 2350BC. Do you think this flood is big enough to inspire Noahs flood.

Is this same flood perhaps the basis for the Sumarian Gilgamesh flood myth as they would have also lived within sighjt of the same flood. Maybe other cultures say in Turkey that also were fairly close or neighbouring nations that used the same flood.
 
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Diamond72

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Sorry I wasn't sure if it was a major enough flood to be attributed as Noahs flood.
Jonathan Cahn discusses the concept of a paradigm as a pattern, model, or template that can be observed throughout history and biblical events. Cahn often draws parallels between biblical events and modern times, so he might use Noah's flood as a way to illustrate how God's judgment can lead to a period of cleansing and restoration.

Noah's flood was a world wide flood from the ice melting. But a little different from what people imagine. This is why Science goes a long way to help us understand our Bible. When we see all the physical evidence for what we read about in the Word of God.
 
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stevevw

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Gobekli Tepe is a fascinating site that has reshaped our understanding of early human history.
Yes I want to learn more about these cultures. South America is turning up some ancient sites that could be up to 15,000 years old. I think Gobekli Tepe has been dated on the repair work which came later and not the actual original site with the Pillars. So it could go back 14 or 15,000 years.

Karahan Tepe is older than Gobekli and there is suppose to be another 40 sites around eastern Turkey. So it was a pretty advanced culture that had sophisticated social and religious development. There are other sites similar around the world so it seems we humans were a lot more organised back.

Then it seems just like people came along later finding these ancient temples and works they inherit them and start again. I am interested in understaning the pre flood peoples beliefs and worldview as this may give us insight into ourselves today.
Genesis 6:5 (KJV):

"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

Here, "imagination" refers to the inclinations and desires of the human heart.
Do you think that because of continual sin that this came with anti God beliefs like pagan beliefs and maybe evil spirits and sorcery. Imaginings is an interesting word. Though it is associated with desires as paganistic beliefs are it seems by the type of beliefs these ancient cultures had was very spiritual.

Linked to astrology, atronomical events, worshipping animal spirits, serpents, frogs, genitals, stones, and making gods out of themselves as with the pre dynastic Egyptians. Many cultures today speak of their ancient ancestors as gods who brought great knowledge.
The natural evidence God gives us is overwhelming and amazing. It is clear that He wants us to know what He has done and that is why He gives us what He does. Even the atheists gather the evidence of God for us. Even if they deny the very evidence that they discover and gather.
I think most people intuit God through His creation. I don't think we need much more that that.

Ecclesiastes 2:26 (NIV):​

"To the person who pleases Him, God gives wisdom, knowledge and happiness, but to the sinner He gives the task of gathering and storing up wealth to hand it over to the one who pleases God."
 
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stevevw

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Jonathan Cahn discusses the concept of a paradigm as a pattern, model, or template that can be observed throughout history and biblical events. Cahn often draws parallels between biblical events and modern times, so he might use Noah's flood as a way to illustrate how God's judgment can lead to a period of cleansing and restoration.

Noah's flood was a world wide flood from the ice melting. But a little different from what people imagine. This is why Science goes a long way to help us understand our Bible. When we see all the physical evidence for what we read about in the Word of God.
Its interesting that Cahn mentions Hillarys support for unlimited abortion with Queen Jezebel and child sacrifice to Baal. How Trump is a modern day archetype of Jeru and wants to clean the swamp. Though I think this relates more to Trumps recent win than in 2016. But also how unpredictable Trump picked up a rightous man to help him in Jehonadab which he likens to Pence. But I think Vance fits the role better lol.

Peterson often reflects the archetypes within our stories from the past and says they hold truths into ourselves that have been repeated throughout time. He uses a similar example of how generally modern day abortion is like the sacrifice to the ancient gods which has truth in it.

He thinks the stories in the bible and those that came from it in the stories and legends we have created are like representations of life that can be reapplied over time. But if we want to really uinderstand ourselves we need to go back tothe beginning, the bible which all these stories and fabels are based on.

Thomas Kuhn came up with the idea of paradigms but more so about the different metaphysical and methodlogical paradigms even within science. A Anthropologist will have a different paradigm biologist or a chemist. The classic being the physical sciences as opposed to the mental sciences. The basic one being the material and non material worldview.

I think its important to understand different paradigms especially throughout history as we can understand where we come from. How we seen the world back then. Most important that we are not limited to any specific paradigm or at least be aware that paradigms are only one way to see the world and reality.

This is especially true in regards to materialism and non materialism as these stories, legends and myths are not something we can put in a test tube and yet they reveal a deeper understanding and reality about ourselves and the world. But today most people dismiss all this out of hand as complete myth and superstition. Which I think we then miss a lot because our stories reflect our lived experiences and reality.
 
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stevevw

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Why , whats wrong with Biblical evidence, God's word not good enough.
No Gods word is truth. But theres more than one way to look at truth I think. The bible tells us God is the creator and that He sent a flood and Noah was saved to restart humanity and make way for the coming Messiah. This is in our psyche and fullfilled in Gods word. That we take on faith.

The rest is the dressing on top. How this fits into our world as we understand it. I don't think it matters whether someone believes the flood was local or worldwide. We don't know how people seen the world back then and cannot see through todays lens. The important thing is that for those who experiences this time it was aglobal flood that impacted humanity that it left a mark on us that ingrained this into our reality today and for all time.

It is the lesson learnt about ourselves. How we are fallen and can decend into sin and chaos when we reject God. This truth has been repeated through the bible and in our history and it is the bible, Gods revalations to us that puts this into perspective as to who we are in the greater scheme of Gods Kingdom to come.
 
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stevevw

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Getting back to the pre flood cultures I have been looking at the pre flood megalithic culture in Japan. I am amazed at the similarities to other megalithic cultures. The size of the stones they managed to cut and move and the precision works and similar small details.

The strange thing is all these cultures seemed to more or less suddenly disappear. The stories within these cultures goes along similar lines that some big catastrophe which is usually a flood or the sea coming to wash the city or civilisation away.

Every culture says that they found these megaliths and that they come from a time when people had great knowledge and were gods.

This tells me that there was a shared knowledge and that the entire world had reached this high point of knowledge and belief usually pagan beliefs or beliefs about the gods being among them as though humans had reached a point of thinking they were god.

There was no going back and God sent a flood. But I think it was not a supernatural event. It was a disaster of some sort. I think that God being the God of the natural world and even down to the micro world that when we humans defy God we are also defying Gods order and nature and invite chaos.

This is the lesson and we see that we are heading that way again and God has revealed to us this before. I think we can gain insights into where we are at from our past and especially the stories, legends and myths we have passed down especially in the bible.


The Octopus stone weighing 800 tons similar to those at Balbeck in Turkey and Egypt. How did they cut and move it.
1735927077069.png


Heres a quarry where they cut the stone slabs. Notice the massive cuts and the precision edges. Notice the similar lines on the walls like machine marks or like some scraping device took layers off the walls. These marks are found in Egypt and Peru as well like the stones had been softened. Very strange.

1735927249456.png


Here is what they say is a megalithic city under the sea off Japan that may have been flooded around 12 to 14,000 years ago.

1735927428176.png


Look at the similarities in the stone walls with interlocking precision cuts that are custom made for each stone between those in Peru, Easter Island, Italy, Turkey and Egypt. As though they has shared knowledge or had reached the same level of knowledge thoughout the world and then this all suddenly disappeared.

1735927650927.png



I was amazed that this type of megalith would be in Japan which shows that the same knowledge was everywhere. We usually see the different influences on architecture post flood but it seems most cultures had similar architecture pre flood.

 
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I have been engaged in a thread on Noahs flood which is based on geological evidence. I was trying to make a case for the Anthropological evidence in understanding the mindset and beliefs of a culture or cultures that would have been around before and after a massive flood that would cause people to believe in the flood stories and in particular Noah.

If Noah's flood happened say within the last 10 to 12,000 years then what is the most likely time scale. I know scholars give a time of 2350BC but is this really the case. Does it match possible real events around 4,375 years ago. If thats the case then all cultures before this were preflood. Egypt began around 3,000BC so that makes them pre flood but also surviving into post flood. The same for all other cultures at that time.

Then we have discoveries like Goblekli Tepe and others which are around 10,000 years old. Evidence shows that these Megalithic cultures were around with pretty sophisticated belief and tech with high precision being able to cut, shape, and move multi ton blocks and have high degrees of geometric and astronomical knowledge. Around that time there was a world wide catastrophy which wiped out mega fauna and many of these cultures. Were these the pre flood cultures.

It seems to me that these cultures had a high degree of religious belief in gods, like pagan gods such as the moon, sun, animals and idols of stone with godlike faces. Along with a high degree of tech was this the pre flood world that had become so evil that everything they did was about their pagan gods. They became so advanced that they were destroyed and everything was reset when later cultures like in Mesopotamia started.

It seems to me there were many Megalithic cultures with a high degree of knowledge and belief who more or less disappeared with the Megafauna. Only for humans to re-emerge later.

Otherswise when did this world wide flood happen. Was it a local flood and each culture experienced their own local flood to create their own flood story. If there was one flood then it makes sense to me that it had to be around 10,000 years ago when there was world wide catastrophes where large glaciers melted and would have filled the oceans up to around 300 feet. Some of this may have been abrupt when large nation size dams of pooled up water released.

This is the only time I think a global scale flood has happened in the last 10 or 12,000 years and certainly within a time when humans were capable of a level of religious belief that could come up with such a flood story.

So I want to know what these pre flood cultures were like, what the world was like. What is the evidence on the ground for this in our history. Which timescale best fits.
if only 8 people survived the flood. as the biblical account states.

then the only culture which would have come through the flood would be that if Noah and his 3 sons and their wives.
 
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stevevw

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if only 8 people survived the flood. as the biblical account states.

then the only culture which would have come through the flood would be that if Noah and his 3 sons and their wives.
Not if the flood was thought to have been global but was not. In this way the author is correct in that from their perspective Noah and his sons were the only survivors as they believed the flood was global. But in reality others survived outside the zone of destruction.

The floods of the Tigris and Euphrates is said to have been the basis for Noahs flood. Yet these are local floods. I am saying the floods during the Younger Dryas around 12 to 14,000 years ago are more likely the flood from which all cultures have based their story as it was truely a global event and we have evidence for this.

But still it wasn't global but it would have gone down in the stories as global because it was so big that legends were made from it and engrained in the psyche of many cultures around the world. It was this flood that Moses was referring to that he had heard from other cultures that God revealed was the flood that ended the world at that time.

It seems by the evidence of all these cultures with Megalithic and precision works just disappeared all over the world and the Megafauna was wiped out.

There is no other evidence of floods that happened in our history that were so big in the last 20,000 years. All the cultures speak of a flood that wiped out the people that came before them and they found all these mega structures toppled and scattered as though some disaster had struct them.

Most of the evidence people cite for Noahs flood actually come from the Younger Dryas floods that happened around 12 to 14,000 years ago. Look at these marks that go across the entire northern area of Africa which shows that the sea rose and came across the land and tore the bedrock up. It was a massive flood.

This flooding was suppose to have come from the north and possibly from the flooding into the Mediteranian sea which was in turn flooded by the sudden melting of the ice sheets at the end of the last ice. Similar markings and evidence of large areas being torn up by flooding are found in north America such as the Scablands. All of which evidence shows came from flooding around the end of the last iceage.

1735977627594.png
 
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Not if the flood was thought to have been global but was not.
Well this did not happen. It does not matter how many try to say this to make it real. It did not happen.

1. If God was not going to flood the whole earth, then instead of having noah and his family spend 100 years to build an ark, he could have have them spend 100 years traveling to the place it would not flood
2. 15 cubits above the highest mountain. By defenition, water which rises above the hghost elevation of land on earth, would cover the whole earth
3. The word says all flesh except for 8 and the animals carried on the ark, perished
4. There would have been no need to put the animals on the ark, God could have taken them to a place where there would have been no flood.

I can go on and on and on
In this way the author is correct in that from their perspective Noah and his sons were the only survivors as they believed the flood was global. But in reality others survived outside the zone of destruction.
Impossible
The floods of the Tigris and Euphrates is said to have been the basis for Noahs flood. Yet these are local floods. I am saying the floods during the Younger Dryas around 12 to 14,000 years ago are more likely the flood from which all cultures have based their story as it was truely a global event and we have evidence for this.
Um no. This is not the basis of the flood. Not sure where this came up

Genesis 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, theseventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of thegreat deep were broken up, and thewindows of heaven were opened


But still it wasn't global but it would have gone down in the stories as global because it was so big that legends were made from it and engrained in the psyche of many cultures around the world. It was this flood that Moses was referring to that he had heard from other cultures that God revealed was the flood that ended the world at that time.

It seems by the evidence of all these cultures with Megalithic and precision works just disappeared all over the world and the Megafauna was wiped out.

There is no other evidence of floods that happened in our history that were so big in the last 20,000 years. All the cultures speak of a flood that wiped out the people that came before them and they found all these mega structures toppled and scattered as though some disaster had struct them.

Most of the evidence people cite for Noahs flood actually come from the Younger Dryas floods that happened around 12 to 14,000 years ago. Look at these marks that go across the entire northern area of Africa which shows that the sea rose and came across the land and tore the bedrock up. It was a massive flood.

This flooding was suppose to have come from the north and possibly from the flooding into the Mediteranian sea which was in turn flooded by the sudden melting of the ice sheets at the end of the last ice. Similar markings and evidence of large areas being torn up by flooding are found in north America such as the Scablands. All of which evidence shows came from flooding around the end of the last iceage.

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stevevw

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Well this did not happen. It does not matter how many try to say this to make it real. It did not happen.
First let me clarify with all this hypothesising that what I am not making any truth claims about Noahs flood and the biblical account. I take this on faith and I honestly don't know what happened. I am only pointing out some evidence apart from the bible. Like the evidence for floods and not what flood they represent in religion.
1. If God was not going to flood the whole earth, then instead of having noah and his family spend 100 years to build an ark, he could have have them spend 100 years traveling to the place it would not flood
Not necessarily. The floods during the end of the last iceage were no small floods. They would have flooded most of the northern hemisphere. They may have flooded most of the globe as sea levels rose.

If you notice most of these flood stories come from around the concentration of where humans first existed around north Africa and into the Levant, Turkey and Europe and North America. That was more or less the entire world as that is where it began. It depnds on the land bridges as they were only there when the ice was there.
2. 15 cubits above the highest mountain. By defenition, water which rises above the hghost elevation of land on earth, would cover the whole earth
How would Moses know what was the highest mountain on earth at the time. Mt Everest was no where near him and I doubt if he had even known of it let alone others. How do you know the highest mountains were not the local mountains or whether it was an allaboration to emphasize how mighty the flood was.
3. The word says all flesh except for 8 and the animals carried on the ark, perished
Well all I can say is that the greates flood in the last 20,000 years coincided with the Younger Dryas event around the end of the last iceage around 14,000 years ago. We have geological and archeological evidence as well as the stories of many cultures that relate this time to a flood sent by the gods.

They do say that either 1 or a small group were the only ones saved and that they came with great knowledge and wisedom to restart humanity. It seems strange that we have all this evidence and we don't relate it to Noahs flood. Otherwise when would have this worldwide flood happened besides a real flood that almost mimicks the biblical flood.
4. There would have been no need to put the animals on the ark, God could have taken them to a place where there would have been no flood.
Like I said for that area it was a global flood in that it covered most of the northern hemisphere. Animals in that area would not have had routes to especape of be isolated and die. Most of the megafauna were wiped out during this event. What other flood event can we refer to besides this one that we have evidence of such widespread extinction and devastation.
Impossible
I don't know, maybe it did wipe out everyone. We do see a sudden disappearence of many megalithic cultures around the world.

But what about say DNA tests that show a % of Neandathal DNA in some humans but not others. This shows that there had to be other humans around as Noah would have either had Neandathal DNA or not. So if he didn't then there were others who did for this DNA to be passed on into present day.
Um no. This is not the basis of the flood. Not sure where this came up

Genesis 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, theseventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of thegreat deep were broken up, and thewindows of heaven were opened
You do know that in Noahs time people thought the sky was like a dome windown that let the waters above it through sometimes as rain and that there was also water below the earth. This was not reality but how they seen the world as the sky looks like a dome with a flat earth and water outside it as well.

I have heard of the idea of trying to discover evidence for Noahs flood around 2350BCE when it was suppose to have happened that the only flood was a local one around the Tigris and Euphrates river as these often flooded being that this area was more tropical around 5,000 years ago.

But that is the only floods during that time. local floods and we have evidence for them. The only global sized flood is the ones during the Younger Dryas event around 14,000 years ago.

The other thing that makes me think this might be the case is that the cultures at that time seemed to be very pagan and defiant. Thought they were gods. Their decendents who created the flood stories like the later Egyptains or Puruvians said they were gods and became to great that they were destroyed.

So theres a number of lines of evidence that seem to point to this time. Thats why I am interested in understanding these pre flood cultures as I think we will understand the world Noah was living in and also ourselves as to how we can defy God to our own perill.
 
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