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Featured Praying to Saints

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by dreadnought, Mar 31, 2018.

  1. paul becke

    paul becke Regular Member Supporter

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    There is an awful lot of that in these columns isn't there ? In effect, 'straw men' argumentation. Refuting questions that were never part of the belief or argument of the other poster.
     
  2. jamesbond007

    jamesbond007 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    :rolleyes:. Scripture does not instruct believers in Jesus to pray to anyone other than God either. This thread has gone from the preachy Catholic dogma to what is actually practiced.

    Pope Francis Prays Before Madonna Statue In Cuba

    The pope has condoned praying TO saints and praying BEFORE statues and KNEELING before statues. Past popes have done this. This happens with Catholics more often than not and no one is appalled. Instead, people take a lot of pictures, get excited and end up doing the same.

    God is a jealous God, so let's heed his warning :amen:.

    "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 eYou shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am fa jealous God, gvisiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,"

    Exodus 20:2-5

    Not only that, God sent a plague for worshiping the golden calf.

    Exodus 32
     
  3. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Prayers for intercession and supplication are not worship. The topic of the thread is not about the kneeling before statues. I agree no one should kneel before statues but prayers to the saints for supplication is not forbidden in the Bible. So that passage of scripture doesn’t necessarily apply to prayers to the saints.
     
  4. paul becke

    paul becke Regular Member Supporter

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  5. jamesbond007

    jamesbond007 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Maybe you are right in that it is not Catholic dogma since I've experienced Catholicism as a child, but not practiced it as an adult. I think it's dangerous to replace Jesus as the sole mediator and redeemer. What it leads to is confusion and souls being lost. The following explains what ends up being practiced.

    I found this and think it explains from a Catholic view. What do you think?

    Mary, Mother of Salvation | Catholic Answers
     
  6. jamesbond007

    jamesbond007 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Small potatoes. It must be important to you because you keep repeating yourself like a faulty recording when in practice it is not what happens. You miss the big question of the OP -- "Why don't these people pray to God instead?."
     
  7. Netgear

    Netgear A Dog On A Mission

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    Thing is, Jesus did say that we have to pick up our crosses and follow Him. The Catholic Church is very much hated and despised but it still stands. Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail againt His church.
     
  8. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    You're avoiding a direct answer. I don't value prayer to the saints, and it would seem you do but you can't tell me why and keep redirecting. You may say it is the same as asking someone to pray for you but we have yet to establish the values behind this asking which we may differ on... so what are the values? "It's the same as asking someone else"... ok I heard you the first time and let's get that out of the way but what is the value behind it, why are you asking?
     
  9. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I repeat myself because people keep saying that praying is worship. I didn’t miss anything in the OP I already addressed that question. The Bible doesn’t tell us everything we can do it tells us everything we can’t do.
     
  10. chilehed

    chilehed Veteran

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    The question is not whether or not you see the value in having other people pray for you. If you don't, then you don't - although it's a great loss for you.

    The question is "is it forbidden to pray people to pray for us", and the answer is quite obviously "no". Then the question is "does the bible give us any reason to think it's wrong to pray our departed brethren in heaven to pray for us", and again the answer is "no". If you have a coherent biblical reasoning to conclude otherwise, than please provide it - and no, the fact that you don't get why someone would want to do it doesn't count.
     
  11. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Many times it is, however, although you are correct that it does not have to be so.

    I agree. That interjection about kneeling and statues just junked up the discussion.
     
  12. Netgear

    Netgear A Dog On A Mission

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    John 21:25
    25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

    This why we have Apostolic succession and Sacred Tradition.
     
  13. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Actually, no. We have Apostolic Succession because of the need to rely upon the authenticity and credibility of the pastor/evangelist/bishop. And we have Sacred Tradition because some of the older churches needed term to justify the non-Scriptural doctrines they were creating. Holy or Sacred Tradition, so-called, is simply a theory that says God is giving us additions to his revelation in Scripture if there is some highly-valued opinion that's held by church leaders but which has no basis in Scripture.
     
  14. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    .
     
  15. S.O.J.I.A.

    S.O.J.I.A. Dynamic UNO

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    where In scripture are we told that we will acquire God's divine attributes?

    we have biblical data of Jesus saying that God will give us the power to move mountains if we have faith in Him. where does He tell that we will have omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence?
     
  16. Netgear

    Netgear A Dog On A Mission

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    Thats YOUR view. Obviously a non Catholic view brother
     
  17. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    On the contrary, I merely relayed the historical record/facts to you since it seemed to me that you were not aware of them but had nevertheless stuck your neck out to say...

     
  18. JF Seabastian

    JF Seabastian New Member

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    Lots of people value traditions over Scripture; however, it is not a Christian thing, nor is it a Catholic thing. Catholics do value Holy Tradition, but it must not be contradicted by Scripture to been accepted as Holy Tradition.
     
  19. Netgear

    Netgear A Dog On A Mission

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    I disagree.
     
  20. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

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    Praying to saints contradicts scripture though
     
  21. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

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    Praying to saints contradicts scripture though
     
  22. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

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    Praying to saints contradicts scripture though
     
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