dead saints
To a Catholic, this is an oxymoron. That is why we ask them for their prayers.
Neal
To a Catholic, this is an oxymoron. That is why we ask them for their prayers.
Neal
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from post #51What if she said no?
Originally posted by isshinwhat
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=329642#post329642
Doh! Yeah, Ref, sorry.
Neal
Originally posted by isshinwhat
Keep in mind the scene recorded in Revelations occurs in the Heaven, and the vision Judas Maccabeus has is of two men, Jeremiah and Onias, who are dead.
I believe the bolded portion in the last passage says why they pray; they love us.
God Bless,
Neal
Originally posted by isshinwhat
God, through his foreknowledge, knew she would say yes. That, however, did not take away from her free will in answering.
P.S. I'll be back on later, I was supposed to meet my fiancee 45 mninutes ago. Pray for me!
could be construed to be ridicule of another's belief, which is clearly against forum rules.Satan has access to God. Is it okay to pray to him?
LOL! Good luck! I'll pray for you. LOL!
I don't know if this link points to where you mean for it to. If so, I don't get the answer. First off, I don't have a "Maccabees" book in my Bible. Second, I assume your referring to "the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God." If that is that what you're referring to I don't see how that addresses my post.
Originally posted by VOW
To lambslove:
You have received answers from people in this very thread about what "pray to" means. Continuing to dwell upon your personal interpretation of the word is unnecessary. Again, you are not required to "pray" to anyone; and you cannot judge another for asking a "dead saint" to pray for them.
Further, this remark by you:
could be construed to be ridicule of another's belief, which is clearly against forum rules.
But notice it is the prayers of the saints, it is not inferring that they are the prayers of saints that are in heaven. It is instead referring to the saints that are living.
As far as Maccabees, it is as far as I am concerned and by many authoritative scholars that 1 or 2 Maccabees was not inspired by God and therefore is not recognized as holding any authority.
How could God know ahead of time something that is left to our free will?
Did He not have any control over what she would say?
Sovereign means that God decrees that something will happen a certain way and it does not deviate from that exact decree.
Originally posted by isshinwhat
It was actually for Chloe.
God Bless,
Neal
it still does not answer my question as to why the saints in heaven would have to pray, considering they could simply speak to God face to face.
Originally posted by isshinwhat
Who says our free will was not part of the original decree?
Neal
Now, if you're talking about our ability to make certain choices, then I would say we are most definitely capable of that. However, those choices are limited by so many things (which I'll name if you so desire) that the concept of our will not be subject to outside influence is utterly incongrous.