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Featured Praying to Saints? - Praying to those who are already in Heaven?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Korean-American Christian, Aug 7, 2017.

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  1. Friend-of-Jesus

    Friend-of-Jesus Well-Known Member

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    You just can't interact with the deceased unless you're God.
     
  2. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Baloney. We're all sinners, so none of us deserves to be in heaven-we only get there by God's grace. Those in heaven have had the doors opened for them. God found a way to let us know that some of them are there. It's not idolatry to recognize the merits of those who fought the good fight and won.
    Wrong, as stated before. Prayer is not worship, though it can be.
     
  3. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Interacting in what way, like a medium? No doubt. We can call to the saints in heaven and ask for their help though.
     
  4. Anguspure

    Anguspure Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ Supporter

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    Nevertheless all the Truth that is in Christ Jesus is sufficient for salvation and sanctification.
     
  5. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    How can they hear all those thousands of prayers said to them? How can they help? Where is that written in Scripture?
     
  6. Friend-of-Jesus

    Friend-of-Jesus Well-Known Member

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    Which is idolatry. It's robbing God of what only He is worthy of. Mary and "saints" don't hear people on earth and can't help them.
     
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  7. Anguspure

    Anguspure Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ Supporter

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    Thats the thing. Are those who are asleep, awake? I think not. Rather they look forward to their ressurection to life (or to judgement) and so are incapable of hearing anything at the current time.
     
  8. sethrak

    sethrak Member

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    Hi folks, Just curious, do you think if I ask the Lord~when working on and engine, father was in earthly life a great mechanic, and ask Daddy, uncles, help me with this thing~ many times I've been sure they've given me the answer~do you think that like foolish or sorcery something our Lord would not permit or like.
    I'm sure we've the same God, in a way the Ancient Church introduced you, having kept for you the Book and Tradition, even though you may be able to understand the Holy Writings and better than we~
    There was no time in history when we were not teaching/learning of our God of our Christ we were not ignorant of the Lord even when pagan kings or rulers forbade our love of God.
    You may think or have been taught Christians were in the dark but they/we were not, are not.
     
  9. Anguspure

    Anguspure Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ Supporter

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    THe same Elijah who was taken up in a whirl wind? As for Enoch (at least), this man still does not sleep.
     
  10. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    Okay, let's take a look at a few specific prayers prayed to Saint Ann (the mother of Mary):

    DAILY PRAYER TO SAINT ANN

    O glorious St. Ann, you are filled with compassion for those who invoke you and with love for those who suffer! Heavily burdened with the weight of my troubles, I cast myself at your feet and humbly beg of you to take the present intention which I recommend to you in your special care.

    Please recommend it to your daughter, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and place it before the throne of Jesus, so that He may bring it to a happy issue. Continue to intercede for me until my request is granted. But, above all, obtain for me the grace one day to see my God face to face, and with you and Mary and all the saints to praise and bless Him for all eternity. Amen.

    Our Father, . . . Hail Mary . . .

    O Jesus, Holy Mary, St. Ann, help me now and at the hour of my death.

    Good St. Ann, intercede for me.


    Would anyone pray such things to a family member or friend here on earth?

    Or how about this example, to Saint Ann as well:

    Dear St. Ann, though I am but a prodigal child, I appeal to you and place myself under your great motherly care. Please listen to my prayers and grant my requests. See my contrite heart, and show me your unfailing goodness.

    Deign to be my advocate and recommend me to God’s infinite mercy. Obtain for me forgiveness of my sins and the strength to begin a new life that will last forever.

    Blessed St. Ann, I also beg of you the grace to love, to serve, and to honor your daughter, the most holy Virgin Mary. Please recommend me to her and pray to her for me. She refuses none your requests but welcomes with loving kindness all those for whom you intercede.

    Good Jesus, be merciful to the faithful servants of Your grandmother St. Ann.

    One more example:

    Hail, all-powerful Lady. By God’s special favor, grant consolation to those who invoke you. Procure for them the eternal riches of heaven, and like a good mother, success in their temporal affairs as well.

    Good St. Ann, obtain my deliverance from the punishment which my sins deserve. Obtain for me success in my temporal affairs; especially see to the salvation of my soul.

    St. Ann, by your influence with Mary’s son Jesus, you have won the gift of conversion for many sinners. Will you then abandon me, who have chosen you as my mother? No, St. Ann. Your name alone, which signifies grace, assures me of the help of your prayers, and
    these prayers will surely procure pardon and mercy from Jesus. You will pray for me now and at the hour of my death.

    Again, would anyone be comfortable saying such things to a family member or friend? How is this not giving praise to a fellow (departed) human being, that God alone deserves?

    Here is the source, for anyone who wants to do more reading:

    St Ann Novena
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
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  11. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    When I get there, I'll ask them. Revelation 4:6-8
     
  12. Anguspure

    Anguspure Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ Supporter

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    Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.(1 Corinthians 15)
     
  13. Friend-of-Jesus

    Friend-of-Jesus Well-Known Member

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    Thousands? How about many millions daily? If we believe that, we must admit that those "saints" after dying were upgraded to the position of God.
     
  14. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    They cannot, unless they are omniscient and/or omnipresent. (Qualities which belong to God alone.)
     
  15. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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  16. Friend-of-Jesus

    Friend-of-Jesus Well-Known Member

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    This is, clearly, deifying...
     
  17. PropheticTimes

    PropheticTimes Lord Have Mercy Supporter

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    Asking dead people to take your prayers to God? Then Jesus didn't have to die, just have the dead intercede for us! :doh:

    Speaking to the dead is necromancy, and that's not okay. Did Jesus pray to the dead? No, He prayed to the Father. We are to pray to the Father in the name of Jesus, our Great High Priest, the ONLY intercessor we ever need. Going through anyone else is not only speaking to dead idols but it robs God of the glory due Him alone.

    0“There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.12“For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you.
    Deuteronomy 18:9-12
     
  18. sethrak

    sethrak Member

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    Quote Frend of Jesus: All believers are saints by the blood of Jesus only.

    Ok, then there are Saints, as you have said, I don't think for one minute you or you minister should have to think highly of them or think of them at all, I think relatives of mine and great and good persons who have lived and died with and some for their belief in Our God are Saints, just as you have said, but your and my Last Day has not yet come~but for them it has they are with Our God and are able to worship Him now as they did while on earth.

    Have you never spoken to a loved one who has gone~and now is with the lord.

    The translation of our Bible you have~most of you have is I think in English~I'm sure it's pretty good~one of you might speak and read in Korean~While visiting a cousin ;ast week, who is very ill, I saw a Korean Bible~I didn't take it~I wanted it, even tho I couldn't read it~why, I don't know~but I wanted it```

    Well, I'm gona go look around

    setn
     
  19. Friend-of-Jesus

    Friend-of-Jesus Well-Known Member

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    It's not. Ancestor worship is, probably, the most wide-spread belief around the world. It was certainly in full force in the centuries before and after the earthly life of our Lord Jesus. Somehow it found its way into what is called Christianity.

    I come from a culture with very strong Shamanistic roots. We started accepting Abrahamic faiths relatively recently. I see that very often, when one accepts the Bible or the Quran, they continue to pray to their "powerful ancestors" or "ancient holy men and women" and just incorporate the practice into their newly found religion. It's very common.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
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  20. sethrak

    sethrak Member

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    You are a bit less than right to judge deifying~ when a Sainted person is revered. I don't know of any one who makes a Saint their god~there is only one God.

    You/we may not always know better than other Christians~I do think the closer we are to Early Christian Church~the closer you/we are```
     
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