Praying to Saints? - Praying to those who are already in Heaven?

[amariselle]

In case anyone else is confused.

Prayer:

a solemn request for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or an object of worship. ("I'll say a prayer for him")

synonyms: invocation, intercession, devotion;

 

[salt-n-light]

That is prayer.

saying "prayer" which is still directly to God, and saying "praying to others to pray for you" are two different things.

 

[seashale76]

No one rejects that they're alive, just that those Scriptures that say they are living do not even once say to pray to them.

But believe as you like.

I think that is being rejected. Pretty blatantly, actually. It's also to the point that the inconvenient scriptures are outright ignored.

 

[salt-n-light]

I don't think people assume you don't also pray directly to Christ. I think the concerns/questions are, why not pray only to Christ?

Same thing I'm saying, it's like asking everyone else to tell this one person something pertaining to you and that person. Those people are gonna ask "why don't you just go up to them and tell them yourself they are right there in front of you".

 

[buzuxi02]

saying "prayer" which is still directly to God, and saying "praying to others to pray for you" are two different things.

So are you the variety of protestant who also says not to pray to Jesus directly, because he never instructed them to do so while alive? The Church also exists in heaven, not only does scripture teache this ( Hebrews 12:22-24. Revelation 18:20 ) but the living experience of the Church in all places and times followed by miracles and wonders.

But as I have said you have a different understanding, different scripture, different culture. To each his own.

 

[amariselle]

Prayer for the Year of St. Paul

"Glorious Saint Paul,
Most zealous apostle,
Martyr for the love of Christ,
Give us a deep faith,
A steadfast hope,
A burning love for our Lord,
So that we can proclaim with you,
“It is no longer I who live,
But Christ who lives in me.”

Help us to become apostles,
Serving the Church with a pure heart,
Witnesses to her truth and beauty
Amidst the darkness of our days.
With you we praise God our Father:
“To him be the glory, in the Church
And in Christ,
Now and forever.”

Amen.

EWTN  ~ Prayers

Paul would utterly reject this prayer. How do I know? Let's see:

"Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name." - 1 Corinthians 1:12-15

"For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?

Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase." - 1 Corinthians 3:4-7

 

[amariselle]

I think that is being rejected. Pretty blatantly, actually. It's also to the point that the inconvenient scriptures are outright ignored.

I don't reject that they are spiritually alive. They are however, physically dead and no longer among us on earth. Therefore, we are forbidden, by Scripture to communicate with them.

 

[amariselle]

Same thing I'm saying, it's like asking everyone else to tell this one person something pertaining to you and that person. Those people are gonna ask "why don't you just go up to them and tell them yourself they are right there in front of you".

Yep. We have one Mediator and one High Priest, Jesus Christ.

 

[PeaceB]

I don't reject that they are spiritually alive. They are however, physically dead and no longer among us on earth. Therefore, we are forbidden, by Scripture to communicate with them.

No. Scripture does not state "we are forbidden to communicate with people no longer among us on Earth". That is merely your personal interpretation of Scripture, and we reject it.

 

[salt-n-light]

Then how come on this forum many write in complaining God does not hear their prayers? I tell them to convert and beseech the great cloud of witnesses to intercede.

When Jesus attended the wedding feast of Cana they ran out of wine. Jesus did not oblige their complaints. So Jesus mother went to him on their behalf and asked him to make more. After some consternation he relented to her wishes. Jesus mother then told the servants (whatever he asks of you, do it). You see the reciprocity, two way street.

God hears every prayer (1 John 5:14), but people lack or are weak in faith some of the times. So for support, they ask someone to either go on their behalf or pray with them. Strength in numbers.But if you yourself have faith like a mustard seed, you can move even mountains (Matt 17:20). It's not the need of certain leaders of faith that affects the power of the prayer, it's the lack of faith from the person who is making that request to God.

 

[salt-n-light]

So are you the variety of protestant who also says not to pray to Jesus directly, because he never instructed them to do so while alive? The Church also exists in heaven, not only does scripture teache this ( Hebrews 12:22-24. Revelation 18:20 ) but the living experience of the Church in all places and times followed by miracles and wonders.

But as I have said you have a different understanding, different scripture, different culture. To each his own.

Uh, I'm not a variety of anything.I pray to Jesus because he's God and died for my sins and is the intercessor now. I don't pray to any other because all those other people are not God, didn't die for my sins, and are not my intercessors.(1 Timothy 2:5)

Simple.

 

[prodromos]

Love? So it's not enough to pray only to the Triune God?

God wants His Church to be a communion of love. We are commanded by Christ to love one another. His Church is one body, not two. There isn't a seperate body of living believers and another of 'dead' believers. Praying for one another is one of the primary ways in which we express our love for one another in Christ's body.

 

[prodromos]

Not true, and you know it.

Your denial of the fact does not change it one iota.

I pray to God alone.

Then you use a very narrow definition of "pray" which is divorced from its historical usage.

 

[amariselle]

God wants His Church to be a communion of love. We are commanded by Christ to love one another. His Church is one body, not two. There isn't a seperate body of living believers and another of 'dead' believers. Praying for one another is one of the primary ways in which we express our love for one another in Christ's body.

I still haven't seen any Scriptural support to back up the claim that we should pray to "dead" saints. Or that this is what being part of the body of Christ means, and what is meant by loving one another.

What I do read in Scripture is that God forbids communicating with those who are no longer living on this earth.

 

[amariselle]

Your denial of the fact does not change it one iota.

Then you use a very narrow definition of "pray" which is divorced from its historical usage.

I gave the definition. But go look it up for yourself.

You keep praying to fellow human beings, I'm going to pray only to God.

 

[amariselle]

No. Scripture does not state "we are forbidden to communicate with people no longer among us on Earth". That is merely your personal interpretation of Scripture, and we reject it.

You keep saying that. As I said, the Bible speaks clearly to this. Your problem is with Scripture, not me.

One day, you can take it up with God I guess.

 

[PeaceB]

You keep saying that. As I said, the Bible speaks clearly to this. Your problem is with Scripture, not me.

One day, you can take it up with God I guess.

No, I reject your interpretation of Scripture. Scripture does not state what you wrote. You are again equating your interpretation of Scripture with the word of God.

I accept the word of God. I reject your personal interpretation of Scripture. They are not the same, in case you have gotten the two confused.

 

[amariselle]

31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God. - Leviticus 19:31

6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people. - Leviticus 20:6

9 When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.

10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.

11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee. - Deuteronomy 18:9-10

19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? - Isaiah 8:19

 

[PeaceB]

31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God. - Leviticus 19:31

6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people. - Leviticus 20:6

9 When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.

10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.

11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee. - Deuteronomy 18:9-10

19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? - Isaiah 8:19

The Word of the Lord. Thanks be to God!

 

[amariselle]

The Word of the Lord. Thanks be to God!

Don't act like it's the first time you've seen those verses. They've been shared multiple times.