Praying to Saints? - Praying to those who are already in Heaven?

[amariselle]

When you ask a living person to say a prayer for you- you are praying.

Incorrect.

 

[seashale76]

Again, and please hear this, when people say "dead" they mean physically dead.

Are they dead? Is Matthew wrong?

 

[seashale76]

Incorrect.

Actually- no.

 

[amariselle]

Are they dead? Is Matthew wrong?

Are we to attempt to contact those who have left this earthly life? It the Bible wrong? Is God wrong when He forbids it?

 

[PeaceB]

I don't ask my friends some of the things people ask of saints. Nor would I ever dream of doing so.

To each his own.

 

[amariselle]

Actually- no.

Actually, yes. If you think every single request made of a living person is "prayer", you have a bizarre definition of prayer.

 

[seashale76]

Actually, yes. If you think every single request made of a living person is "prayer", you have a bizarre definition of prayer.

Not really. Tell that to the English. You are honestly telling me that you've never heard the old fashioned English term/phrase for asking anyone for something, "I pray thee"?

 

[PeaceB]

Are we to attempt to contact those who have left this earthly life? It the Bible wrong? Is God wrong when He forbids it?

Scripture does not state "do not attempt to contact those who have left this earthly life." That is merely your interpretation of Scripture, and we reject it.

 

[amariselle]

Not really. Tell that to the English. You are honestly telling me that you've never heard the old fashioned English term/phrase for asking anyone for something, "I pray thee"?

I guess that's the problem then, isn't it? I don't live in 16th century England.

 

[buzuxi02]

Huh? Who prays for people to pray for them? You ask them to pray for you out of support. But you don't actually need them as part of the praying process for God to hear you.

Then how come on this forum many write in complaining God does not hear their prayers? I tell them to convert and beseech the great cloud of witnesses to intercede.

When Jesus attended the wedding feast of Cana they ran out of wine. Jesus did not oblige their complaints. So Jesus mother went to him on their behalf and asked him to make more. After some consternation he relented to her wishes. Jesus mother then told the servants (whatever he asks of you, do it). You see the reciprocity, two way street.

 

[amariselle]

Scripture does not state "do not attempt to contact those who have left this earthly life." That is merely your interpretation of Scripture, and we reject it.

You've been shown repeatedly where God forbids such things.

Reject it all you like. Your problem is with the Bible, not with me.

 

[seashale76]

I guess that's the problem then, isn't it? I don't live in 16th century England.

Anytime you're asking people for things- you're praying. Whether you refuse to acknowledge it- it doesn't change the reality.

 

[PeaceB]

You've been shown repeatedly where God forbids such things.

Reject it all you like. Your problem is with the Bible, not with me.

No, you did not provide one singe verse of Scripture that teaches "do not attempt to contact those who have left this earthly life". We accept Scripture. We reject your interpretation of Scripture.

If one of us says that we disagree with your interpretation of Scripture, you accuse of us of rejecting Scripture. Thus you equate your own personal interpretation of Scripture with the word of God.

 

[seashale76]

You've been shown repeatedly where God forbids such things.

Reject it all you like. Your problem is with the Bible, not with me.

Does it occur to you that we view your beliefs the same way- as rejecting the scriptures? From our perspective we see many conveniently ignore all of the scriptures wherein we're told the saints are alive...as well as flat out rejecting some scriptures altogether.

 

[prodromos]

I don't think people assume you don't also pray directly to Christ. I think the concerns/questions are, why not pray only to Christ?

Love. That's why.

 

[salt-n-light]

Mskriskris,
Do you comprehend what you are saying? Your saying Jesus only benefits us while we are on this earth to pray for lottery numbers. After all we are all going to die and vanish since only Christ lives forever.
So exactly what is the point of Jesus if he did not give us everlasting life? Answer your own question please.

He gives us everlasting life, after we die. We have to die. Physically.Ironically you don't even call your saints "Saints" until they die.The big difference between them and Jesus, is his resurrection, his power over death. Those saints didn't and can't get me everlasting life. Only through Jesus. Through Him, we can also conquer the grave, by having everlasting life. All of those saints have it, but Mary had to die, Paul had to die, and me and you have to die, physically.

 

[amariselle]

Let's take a look at some more prayers to "Saint Joseph."

(We should be willing to honestly ask ourselves if praying this way to anyone other than God is okay.)

"Ever blessed and glorious Joseph, kind and loving father, and helpful friend of all in sorrow! You are the good father and protector of orphans, the defender of the defenseless, the patron of those in need and sorrow. Look kindly on my request. My sins have drawn down on me the just displeasure of my God, and so I am surrounded with unhappiness. To you, loving guardian of the Family of Nazareth, do I go for help and protection.

Listen, then, I beg you, with fatherly concern, to my earnest prayers, and obtain for me the favors I ask.

I ask it by the infinite mercy of the eternal Son of God, which moved Him to take our nature and to be born into this world of sorrow.

I ask it by the weariness and suffering you endured when you found no shelter at the inn of Bethlehem for the holy Virgin, nor a house where the Son of God could be born. Then, being everywhere refused, you had to allow the Queen of Heaven to give birth to the world's Redeemer in a cave.

I ask it by the loveliness and power of that sacred Name, Jesus, which you conferred on the adorable infant.

I ask it by that painful torture you felt at the prophecy of holy Simeon, which declared the Child Jesus and His holy Mother future victims of our sins and of their great love for us.

I ask it through your sorrow and pain of soul when the angel declared to you that the life of the Child Jesus was sought by His enemies. From their evil plan you had to flee with Him and His Blessed Mother to Egypt. I ask it by all the suffering, weariness, and labors of that long and dangerous journey.

I ask it by all your care to protect the Sacred Child and His Immaculate Mother during your second journey, when you were ordered to return to your own country. I ask it by your peaceful life in Nazareth where you met with so many joys and sorrows.

I ask it by your great distress when the adorable Child was lost to you and His Mother for three days. I ask it by your joy at finding Him in the Temple, and by the comfort you found at Nazareth, while living in the company of the Child Jesus. I ask it by the wonderful submission He showed in His obedience to you.

I ask it by the perfect love and conformity you showed in accepting the Divine order to depart from this life, and from the company of Jesus and Mary. I ask it by the joy which filled your soul, when the Redeemer of the world, triumphant over death and hell, entered into the possession of His kingdom and led you into it with special honors.

I ask it through Mary's glorious Assumption, and through that endless happiness you have with her in the presence of God.

O good father! I beg you, by all your sufferings, sorrows, and joys, to hear me and obtain for me what I ask.

(make your request)

Obtain for all those who have asked my prayers everything that is useful to them in the plan of God. Finally, my dear patron and father, be with me and all who are dear to me in our last moments, that we may eternally sing the praises of Jesus, Mary and Joseph.

Thirty Days' Prayer to St. Joseph

 

[amariselle]

Love. That's why.

Love? So it's not enough to pray only to the Triune God?

 

[amariselle]

Anytime you're asking people for things- you're praying. Whether you refuse to acknowledge it- it doesn't change the reality.

Not true, and you know it.

I pray to God alone.

 

[amariselle]

Does it occur to you that we view your beliefs the same way- as rejecting the scriptures? From our perspective we see many conveniently ignore all of the scriptures wherein we're told the saints are alive...as well as flat out rejecting some scriptures altogether.

No one rejects that they're alive, just that those Scriptures that say they are living do not even once say to pray to them.

But believe as you like.