• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.
  7. There has been an addition to the announcement regarding unacceptable nick names. The phrase "Let's go Brandon" actually stands for a profanity and will be seen as a violation of the profanity rule in the future.

Praying for tragedy

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by JGG, Feb 25, 2012.

  1. GA777

    GA777 Newbie

    494
    +8
    Christian
    Single
    Answers in Bold.
     
  2. JGG

    JGG Well-Known Member

    +2,041
    Seeker
    Private
    Any other?

    According to Britannica: A Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity. See: Christianity.
     
  3. Theofane

    Theofane Guest

    +0
    If an atheist's unbelief is strong enough, nothing that happens to him can affect that unbelief. No matter how good or bad things get for him, he'll never stop being an atheist. If there is such a thing as invincible belief, there is such a thing as invincible unbelief. Since Jesus will knock at the door of a person's heart but never force His way in, a determined heart can always keep Him away with motion-sensitive alarms, electrifed fences, and vicious guard-dogs.
     
  4. Eudaimonist

    Eudaimonist I believe in life before death!

    +2,601
    Atheist
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    Me: Does this mean that you believe that the Christian should pray that tragedy will befall atheists in life, so that they might possibly rethink their views?

    GA777 (reply): If they would never change their views if tragedy wouldn't have fallen, then of course as long as the tragedy brings no damnation/suffering to any soul.

    So praying for tragedy to befall others is acceptable to you under some circumstances. This isn't surprising, but it never ceases to amaze me that people hold this view.

    Me: Since when has an atheist ever become a Christian because others prayed for him? I'm guessing that number is precisely zero. Or are you talking about the atheist engaging in prayer?

    GA777: You're guessing.

    Yes, that's why I said so.

    GA777: Many atheists/non-Christians who converted, mentioned the importance of being prayed for

    In what way did they think that the prayers helped in their conversion?

    GA777: not to mention that prayer can lead God to do anything without contradicting his will which is fulfilling justice.

    Why does God need "leading"? Why wouldn't he simply do the same thing anyway?

    GA777: Furthermore, there are some specialized prayers for unbelievers

    Specialized prayers? Of what sort? What is being prayed for? Why are there still believers if you have this arsenal of prayers with which to lead God?


    eudaimonia,

    Mark
     
  5. GA777

    GA777 Newbie

    494
    +8
    Christian
    Single
    A Christian pronunciation (help·info) is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as recorded in the Canonical gospels and the letters of the New Testament according to Wikipedia





    Chris·tian
    adjective 
    Of, relating to, or professing Christianity or its teachings
    - the Christian Church

    Having or showing qualities associated with Christians, esp. those of decency, kindness, and fairness


    noun 
    Christians, plural
    A person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings According To Google Dictionnary




    Chris·tian (krschn)
    adj.
    1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
    2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
    3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
    4. Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
    5. Showing a loving concern for others; humane.
    n.
    1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
    2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

    Accroding to thefreedictionary

    I can go on and on, but I'll limit myself to this bit only.

    Conclusion : You should have substituted the term 'Christians' with 'baptized persons' or 'persons who think they are Christians' in the 1st post because everyone knows what are the teaching of Jesus.
     
  6. GA777

    GA777 Newbie

    494
    +8
    Christian
    Single
    Each one pretty much had his way. There is an infinity of factors which may lead to God, but each one may have a certain influence, depending on the number of those who prayed, how they prayed and how long they prayed and other factors. For example, some unbelievers met Christians in their lives not much after and started sharing their beliefs, others had some unexplainable thoughts about discovering if God exists or not or sudden keen interest about reading the bible or praying to see if God may hear them. Some for example, who were committing serious sins against ~everybody would face a certain tragedy making them change their ways for a specific period and maybe forever. If prayer was serious enough, some unbelievers may even witness miracles or something alike. This is rare unfortunately and Christians pray for other Christians instead of atheists much more frequently. But there's one thing which is certain : Everyone has his own free will, so nobody converts if he doesn't choose to. Tho. everyone would after some point.

    Because if he does it, the number of saved souls will significantly decrease considering how selfish and how much indifference we often show to God that it would be very just for him not to interfere. (I believe the number of saved souls is higher than most imagine it to be btw.). Someone praying to God (sacrificing his time doing something which may be very boring to most of us and suffering to stay focused maybe all night or for a whole week) will move God and make him look at what the one who is praying wants, causing some events to happen in our lives getting us to know him better or to convert which weren't supposed to happen from the first place. He gave us enough anyways in order to be able to lead ourselves : The bible (His word), Prayer (A mean in communicating with him) and a brain. Anyone can easily get saved without getting help from anyone else if he desires to as much as he desires to do other pleasuring things in this life that he may even risk his life at anytime for doing so.


    Prayers which are designed to be prayed to help nonbelievers which were prayed by some saints who were very close to God or maybe suggested by Jesus Christ or Virgin Mary (According to some known and trusted apparitions). There may be a place for that in the psalms in the bible. Anyone can make his own easily anyways because God listens to the heart more than he does to the words. And in such prayers, Christians pray for the salvation of nonbelievers.

    There are still unbelievers because praying, especially nowadays, is decreasing a lot. Very few do that, and much fewer pray while focusing and meaning what they pray and even if they do that, they pray for a very short period. And I'm pretty sure that small number is helping many atheists without them knowing it and any other Christian or nonbeliever or other religious, because it could get much worse than now. Imagine a world with much less churches or priests and its consequences . Fewer people will have the chance to be preached and the number of believers would be seriously declining, not to mention how the few believers may be affected by the others... Not to mention that the number of people suffering would incredibly increase, wars,famine,diseases and fear will take over our planet. (According to Christianity of course)


    Note : I'm not 100% sure of every statement as I came to most statements after some interpretation which may sometimes be wrong of course.
     
  7. fuji

    fuji Guest

    +0
    [youtube]BWkqBRuwjeY[/youtube]
     
  8. JGG

    JGG Well-Known Member

    +2,041
    Seeker
    Private
    Okay, so what's your point?
     
  9. GA777

    GA777 Newbie

    494
    +8
    Christian
    Single
    I thought I made it clear in my conclusion.
    These people are no Christians, because they don't follow Jesus teachings which mean nothing but love.
    So Christians must be from the best people there are on this Earth as Christianity teaches the commandments showing the Highest degree of love. (You know what Jesus taught: absolute forgiveness, mercy, sacrifice ...)
     
  10. JGG

    JGG Well-Known Member

    +2,041
    Seeker
    Private
    Who said anything about following "Jesus teachings?" I see "believe in," "profess belief in," and "receive baptism," but nothing about following them.

    Do you think if we were to ask that preacher in Tennessee who had his congregation beat his own gay son, he would say he doesn't believe in the teachings of Jesus? Professing belief in, and following the teachings are two completely different things. If we were to hold a meeting of all the people who actually follow Jesus' teachings, it seems pretty li kely that nobody would be eligible to attend.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2012
  11. GA777

    GA777 Newbie

    494
    +8
    Christian
    Single
    http://www.christianforums.com/t7635977-3/#post59960023 You called these people Christians. They didn't follow Jesus teachings.You accused Christians of being evil, so I just corrected your statement because Christians do no evil.

    There are many pedophile Priests. Does that mean they follow Jesus teachings too?
    And beating isn't always bad , I was beaten hardly when I was a kid, and that helped me out a lot to get my path corrected. I won't change the subject btw. but many times beating must be advised

    And No, you're completely wrong. I personally "know" many who follow more than 95% of Jesus teachings. (Many are monks and priests btw). If you can't spot any in your entourage, it doesn't mean there is none. And from the priests and monks I got to know, it is pretty much 70% of them who are that good whether you believe it or not.
     
  12. JGG

    JGG Well-Known Member

    +2,041
    Seeker
    Private
    What teaching are they not following?

    Christians do no evil? That's what you said, right? I'll come back to it.

    Again, by your own definitions, a Christian is someone who believes in Jesus and His teachings, not necessarily one who follows them.

    Wow. So, what are the specific guidelines for when it is advisable to assault someone, and when is it sinful? For instance, telling a congregation to assault a grown man because he's gay, is righteous. But if they dance on his grave once he's dead then they're not even Christians?

    Well, that's still 5% where they're not following Jesus' teachings, isn't it? That's 5% where they're doing evil, right? So, by your new revised definition of "Christian" (One who does no evil), they are not Christians at all, are they?

    It seems to me by Christians tradition, none of them are good. By your own definition they certainly aren't Christians.
     
  13. GA777

    GA777 Newbie

    494
    +8
    Christian
    Single
  14. JGG

    JGG Well-Known Member

    +2,041
    Seeker
    Private
    Yes, but each of those defintions seems significantly different from each other (one is a rather outdated adjective, while the others are nouns, some refer to someone who believes in something), and more importantly, from the one you seem to want to employ (while none of the definitions use the term "follow" you continue to do so).

    Perhaps you could write your own definition of what a Christian is and is not, and see how that goes.
     
  15. GA777

    GA777 Newbie

    494
    +8
    Christian
    Single
    They all show that Christianity doesn't require belief, but showing concern and working also.

    You claim to be good and everything while you seriously seem the complete opposite here. Either your IQ is very low (which is impossible of course) or either you're here for fun and entertainment. So, I won't waste any time in such a meaningless discussion. :wave:
     
  16. selfinflikted

    selfinflikted Under Deck

    +741
    Atheist
    In Relationship
    US-Democrat
    Say wut?
     
  17. JGG

    JGG Well-Known Member

    +2,041
    Seeker
    Private
    I thought the motto was "faith not works?"

    I have made no such claim. Frankly, my challenging your authority doesn't necessarily make me evil.

    Well, not much I can say to that then. Have a good `un.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2012
  18. GA777

    GA777 Newbie

    494
    +8
    Christian
    Single
    Whose motto?Your motto?

    Good was meant here to signify a good person. And that was for many reasons, like twisting words, not admitting being mistaken, giving no importance to a very long PM, playing the drama queen... And of course this can show many negative characteristics.
    If you simply did all of this on a forum like this, you wouldn't do any better in society like you claim you do.
     
  19. GA777

    GA777 Newbie

    494
    +8
    Christian
    Single
  20. selfinflikted

    selfinflikted Under Deck

    +741
    Atheist
    In Relationship
    US-Democrat
    I hate to break this to you, but if your claim that Christians do no evil is true, then there are no Christians.
     
Loading...