Prayer Ropes!

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Matrona

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Even since before I became Orthodox, I've been curious about prayer ropes. Who uses them? The priest's wife at my church wears hers a lot, as does the priest at another nearby church, but those are the only two people I've seen wearing them in public. How do you use them? I can't remember if they're used to count Lord Have Mercys or Jesus Prayers or both. What are the different types you can get? I think I have seen wool knots and wood beads, each of varying lengths. What's the significance of having a tassle on it, if any?
 

Photini

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Matrona said:
Even since before I became Orthodox, I've been curious about prayer ropes. Who uses them? The priest's wife at my church wears hers a lot, as does the priest at another nearby church, but those are the only two people I've seen wearing them in public. How do you use them? I can't remember if they're used to count Lord Have Mercys or Jesus Prayers or both. What are the different types you can get? I think I have seen wool knots and wood beads, each of varying lengths. What's the significance of having a tassle on it, if any?
I have a prayer rope. You can use it to count the Jesus Prayers, Lord Have Mercys, or prostrations, or Most Holy Theotokos,save us. I was told by a layperson I saw making them at the monastery, that there are 9 crosses in each knot, thus-our Enemy cannot stand the sight of a prayer rope and cannot unravel it.
The rope I have is 33 knots. The tassle and/or beads help you keep track of how many times you've gone around the rope.
 
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Matrona

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Photini said:
I was told by a layperson I saw making them at the monastery, that there are 9 crosses in each knot, thus-our Enemy cannot stand the sight of a prayer rope and cannot unravel it.
That is too cool, I never heard that before! I've seen pictures of a knot-in-progress but that's it. Thanks to both of you for the info.
 
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MariaRegina

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SonWorshipper said:
Does anyone else here have the history on these? I am intriqued because they sound similar to the tzitzit in some respects. I would be interested in finding out the time when these came into use, and a full description of the origin as well as each knot and bead, etc.

Thanks!

What is a tzitzit? Do you have a picture of one? I know many Orthodox Traditions come from the Jewish faith, such as chanting and singing the psalms, even the design of our temples comes from the Jewish faith.

Yours in Christ,
Elizabeth
 
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Matthias

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A tzitzit is made from 4 threads, one much longer than the others, which are doubled through a hole in the garment and then wrapped with the longest of the four in a complex pattern of turns and knots which has both religious and numerological significance.

The most common way in which the commandment is fulfilled is by the wearing of a tallit, or prayer shawl during morning prayer. A tallit is made of rectangular piece of cloth and has a tzitzit in each corner. Tallitot are worn by men and, in progressive communities, increasingly by women, too.

Very observant Jewish men also wear, throughout the day, a special four cornered garment called a tallit katan. It is like a small tallit with a hole in the middle to put your head through, (it's a bit like a poncho!) and is worn under the shirt with just the tzitzit hanging out.
 
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SonWorshipper

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chanter said:
What is a tzitzit? Do you have a picture of one? I know many Orthodox Traditions come from the Jewish faith, such as chanting and singing the psalms, even the design of our temples comes from the Jewish faith.

Yours in Christ,
Elizabeth
I am sorry chanter, I did not get back to this right away, I had worked on a reply, trying to get you pictures and everything for over an half hour and just as I was ready to hit the reply button my PC shut off! Oy!

Anyway that site that Matthias got the info from tells you well enough about what tzitzit are, although they really aren't all that complex, very simple in fact if you ever tried Macrame 101! :D I myself tie them and also make tallit.

tallit.jpg
THe longer "fringes" are the tzitzit. One is to examine them to keep from going astray from the L-rds commandments as per Deut. as well as the longer version in Numbers:

Numbers 15
38 Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue:
39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:
40 That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God.
 
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SonWorshipper

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Thank you Oblio, I have read the site you provided, but really didn't see that it gave anything about what inspired them besides rosary beads, so I see that there is no connection what so ever, also the use is not the same as well.
Here is a site that explains where they came from as well as the many places in both the Old and New testaments where referrences to the tzitzit can be found. A woman was once healed by touching those worn by Yeshua :)


http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=842

As well this explains a little about the gematria of the knots on the tzitzit:

In Hebrew there are no numbers but each letter has a numerical value. This is called gematria (Jewish numerology). Therefore each word has a numerical value. For example, on each tzitzit (tassel) there were 39 windings (7+8+11+13 separated by double knots). 26 is the numerical value of YHWH. 13 is the numerical value of Echad (one). Therefore these windings on each tzitzit equals the numerical value of the Hebrew words "YHWH Echad" YHVH is One .
[font=Arial,Helvetica] This is the fundamental axiom of the Jewish faith known as the "Shema". Deut. 6:4[/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica] In addition we also realize that Jesus suffered the same number of stripes for our healing.[/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica] (Isaiah 53:5 and I Pet. 2:24)[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica] They were also commanded to "give to them" (the fringes) a blue strand called the "Shamash" or servant. This is the same word as the center candle in the Menorah.[/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica] Each tzitzit have seven white strands, the number of perfection, surrounded by the blue "servant" depicting royalty. It now adds up to eight, the number of new beginnings[/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica] In addition, if you add 600 which is the value of tzitzit and the 5 knots and 8 strands, they equal 613 that are the number of mitzvahs (commandments or instructions) in the Tanakh (Old Testament). All 613 do not apply to everyone but to the nation, Israel, as a whole. This represents theTorah.[/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica] Today when we see a tallit we rarely see the blue "shamash" in the tzitzit. Most modern talliot have eight white strands. This has to do with tradition and the ancient source of the blue dye.[/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica] In ancient times the only permanent blue dye was available from a the glands of a snail called the hillazon (spelled a variety of ways.) Vegetable dyes would eventually fade. The dye was extracted from the snail through a process that was known by only one family from the time of the Exodus to the destruction of the Second Temple. The cost of obtaining enough dye to create four strands would today cost thousands of dollars. It may be one of the reasons that the tzitzit with the "techelet" (blue dye) were removed from the tallit before it was used to wrap the head of the dead.[/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica] At the death of Y'shua, we are told that the snail disappeared and was thought to be extinct. In addition, the Romans, in order to stamp out the knowledge of Temple service, separated father and sons so that the knowledge of the blue dye would be lost. Later the Muslims killed all who had this knowledge in order to eradicate its use.[/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica] Many men have sought to restore the use of the techelet and have used many items from the ocean, including the ink from a squid, to recreate the dye.[/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica] About ten years ago the chillazon snail reappeared and the process to obtain the blue dye has been re-established. It’s use has not been widespread since the cost of a set of tzitziot cost as much as the tallit itself.[/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica] Think of the implications! The snail disappears at the death of Y'shua and reappears today with the rest of the signs of His imminent return.[/font] :clap:
http://www.shofars.org/tallit.html
 
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Oblio

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Thank you Oblio, I have read the site you provided, but really didn't see that it gave anything about what inspired them besides rosary beads, so I see that there is no connection what so ever, also the use is not the same as well.

I don't think that anyone thinks that the Chotki and the Rosary are one in the same. The Christian faith has been split for over 1000 years and that can be expected. As Photini mentioned, the use of the Chotki is usually centered on the Prayer of the Heart or Jesus Prayer; Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have Mercy on me, a sinner !
 
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Oblio

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SonWorshipper said:
I am sorry, I am a little confused, do you mean that the Orthodox use the prayer rope and the RCC uses the rosary?

Don't be sorry, we thank you for asking questions and even though you may not agree with all our answers, at least you will know what and why we believe what we do :)

The two are different, if nothing else in the prayers that are used (to be honest I have never held a Rosary). You are correct in your assumption, Orthodox use the prayer rope (Chotki) and Catholics the Rosary.
 
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