Pray for the people of Iran!

[The Righterzpen]

*** Warning; video contains conservative American politics / Trump supporters ****
(Thus the reason it is in "General Political Discussion" as opposed to "Prayer Wall"; although its primary purpose is to support the people of Iran.)

(Video also contains record of what's going on in Iran as far as protests of the Iranian government goes.)

Iran (formally the Persian empire) is a nation and people of rich culture and long history of law and what would become "western jurisprudence". The people of Iran are educated, intelligent and are fighting for their nation's freedom. Protesters take to the streets under threat of death.

May God have mercy on the people of Iran and especially give courage to His saints across the Middle East who stand in stark persecution for the faith. Life of the average Christian in America is way to easy in so many ways.

"I shall build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it."
"Thy Kingdom come; Thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven."

God give us all wisdom; as well as courage.

Where we go one; we go all!

 

[ReesePiece23]

Praying for peace...

... And praying that Trump goes back to real estate, and leaves the politics to the people who know what they're actually doing.

My prayers are not up for debate.

 

[muichimotsu]

Isolationist as it might sound, our intervention should be, at most, to protect innocents, not to constantly insinuate ourselves into global politics.

It's never made sense to me that if you are about international relations being better that you'd essentially continue to endorse the idea from either major party that we have to be a military superpower rather than practicing more prudent military tactics in regards to reinforcing our own stability economically, etc. It's why I voted Libertarian the last 2 presidential elections, we can value military strength without being imperialist or the like

Though it's almost a catch-22 in terms of diplomacy with other countries necessitating how our economy functions better or worse.

 

[muichimotsu]

Praying for peace...

... And praying that Trump goes back to real estate, and leaves the politics to the people who know what they're actually doing.

My prayers are not up for debate.

While my sentiment wouldn't be a prayer, I'm wholeheartedly in agreement that Trump was never someone that should've been put in the presidential position at all. Heck, I'm in agreement with a religious cousin that he's basically a liberal in Republican clothing, all things considered.

 

[The Righterzpen]

... And praying that Trump goes back to real estate, and leaves the politics to the people who know what they're actually doing.

While my sentiment wouldn't be a prayer, I'm wholeheartedly in agreement that Trump was never someone that should've been put in the presidential position at all.

Whether or not you guys like Trump is about a relevant as whether or not you like Putin. They are our world leaders.

So we pray God gives them wisdom.

 

[Nancy Hale]

May God have mercy on the people of Iran and especially give courage to His saints across the Middle East who stand in stark persecution for the faith. Life of the average Christian in America is way to easy in so many ways.

I'm confused. If my American life is way too easy, wouldn't that mean you think their life is better or more ideal?
Is it necessary to belittle one population?

 

[muichimotsu]

Whether or not you guys like Trump is about a relevant as whether or not you like Putin. They are our world leaders.

So we pray God gives them wisdom.

Well, not me, I don't pray, but I would at least have some hope they take a step back and realize what damage they're doing, but that's expecting an old dog to learn new tricks, as it were

My dislike of him in terms of his personality and policies is why I participate as a citizen as best I can in voting against his policies and such. I'm not wishing him death, I'm not that petty, I honestly would not wish for desecration or otherwise insulting someone in terms of their death even if it was Bin Laden, when people were wishing his body gets fed to pigs and such, iirc.

Disagreeing with someone's beliefs or policies is not the same as disagreeing with them as a person, and even personality flaws are not set in stone entirely

 

[muichimotsu]

I'm confused. If my American life is way too easy, wouldn't that mean you think their life is better or more ideal?
Is it necessary to belittle one population?

"Too easy" would suggest a Christian in America has it easier compared to an Iranian Christian. They're not belittling them, they're exhibiting compassion, and I do too, even if I don't agree with their beliefs anymore than the Muslim population that's likely the ones behind the persecution

 

[The Righterzpen]

I'm confused. If my American life is way too easy, wouldn't that mean you think their life is better or more ideal?
Is it necessary to belittle one population?

Context! How much persecution do you endure? Are you afraid the police will kill you for not even committing a crime?

I was born and raised in the US. I even served in the military and did clean up after a war. My life has been anything but easy. A lot of people in America struggle in many ways; yet we don't face half of what Christians in violent politically hostile countries face.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Well, not me, I don't pray, but I would at least have some hope they take a step back and realize what damage they're doing, but that's expecting an old dog to learn new tricks, as it were

My dislike of him in terms of his personality and policies is why I participate as a citizen as best I can in voting against his policies and such. I'm not wishing him death, I'm not that petty, I honestly would not wish for desecration or otherwise insulting someone in terms of their death even if it was Bin Laden, when people were wishing his body gets fed to pigs and such, iirc.

Disagreeing with someone's beliefs or policies is not the same as disagreeing with them as a person, and even personality flaws are not set in stone entirely

Your profile states your Buddhist; what does your belief system tell you about national leaders; whether you like them or not?

(And I'm pretty sure Buddhists do pray!)

 

[muichimotsu]

Your profile states your Buddhist; what does your belief system tell you about national leaders; whether you like them or not?

(And I'm pretty sure Buddhists do pray!)

Not really a typical Buddhist and, they meditate, that's not the same thing. And I certainly don't identify with the later traditions that have practices that might more resemble prayer in the Western sense of that term.

My "belief system" is only loosely linked to Buddhism, my political principles tell me that national leaders should not be regarded as sacrosanct, but can and should be criticized if they are not doing their job or even doing it a disservice. It's not just a matter of expecting the system to work, but be vigilant in terms of the system being corrupted

Christianity, from how you seem to present it, in regards to political leaders, seems oddly passive and shirking civic responsibility in regards to just expecting God to fix problems rather than actually being involved in the political process and making change in some meaningful sense.

 

[The Righterzpen]

My "belief system" is only loosely linked to Buddhism, my political principles tell me that national leaders should not be regarded as sacrosanct, but can and should be criticized if they are not doing their job or even doing it a disservice. It's not just a matter of expecting the system to work, but be vigilant in terms of the system being corrupted

Yet you have no control over the choices world leaders make; can you not concede to that fact? (You who spent multitudes of energy complaining on another thread about not being able to control your parents?)

And when you can not "make them do what you want them to" how do you deal with it?

I appeal to an authority who has the ability to do something about it.

Christianity, from how you seem to present it, in regards to political leaders, seems oddly passive and shirking civic responsibility in regards to just expecting God to fix problems rather than actually being involved in the political process and making change in some meaningful sense.

You read an awful lot into a simple statement about praying for world leaders don't you? You who also displayed much excuses for not making change in some meaningful sense concerning your own circumstances.

Why are you on this thread anyways.

The title is to pray for the people of Iran; so since you don't pray; why are you here?

P.S. I am active in politics. I vote.

 

[muichimotsu]

Yet you have no control over the choices world leaders make; can you not concede to that fact? (You who spent multitudes of energy complaining on another thread about not being able to control your parents?)

And when you can not "make them do what you want them to" how do you deal with it?

I appeal to an authority who has the ability to do something about it.

I have control insofar as I'm a member of the populace that, per constitutional laws, can express grievances against the government, I don't always expect them to listen to me, but the point is participating in the system (also my parents are not comparable to an elected official, I didn't choose my parents or even really have a say in it)

I deal with it by persisting within principles of a political system that is self correcting and able to adjust with reasonable discourse and consideration of policies, etc, in fact-based manners, not faith-based

You appeal to an authority you believe intervenes, you can't actually demonstrate that God voted Trump in anymore than you could demonstrate God send a tornado in Jackson TN that narrowly avoided killing people because they were believers or otherwise?

You read an awful lot into a simple statement about praying for world leaders don't you? You who also displayed much excuses for not making change in some meaningful sense concerning your own circumstances.



The title is to pray for the people of Iran; so since you don't pray; why are you here?

P.S. I am active in politics. I vote.

So you don't think your prayers do anything? If you don't believe that, why even advocate for it? You're making this sound like I have to absolutely believe they don't work, I just don't see the evidence supporting that conclusion. Christian involvement in politics tends to go on a spectrum and the extremes tend to be utter theocracy or some notion that God will sort it out anyway, neither of which is that tenable (but not the only 2 manifestations, obviously)

I find prayer in regards to politics as much of a waste of energy as prayer in general, but moreso in terms of something that has demonstrable consequences: legislation, etc.

Activity in politics in terms of voting does not necessarily mean one is thoughtfully considering things, my parents, for instance, would seemingly just vote Republican on the notion that Democrats would be bad for the country or such, they aren't going to have a principled vote for a 3rd party because the concern is the 2 party system. But I looked into the candidates and considered that I wasn't willing to vote based on a false dichotomy presented to me as if I'm just enabling one candidate to win because of populism and such

 

[Kalevalatar]

Regardless of Trump or any other President of the United States, I wish to see the people of Iran free of their oppressive, inhumane, intolerant, brutal conservative regime that sponsors torture, terrorism and bloodshed. I wish to see Iran that stands for every person's human dignity, regardless of gender, nationality, sexuality or religion, Iran that stands for freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights and for peace and cooperation. Iran that is a valuable partner in peace in the region truly worth its size, weight and long fabulous history.

 

[ReesePiece23]

Whether or not you guys like Trump is about a relevant as whether or not you like Putin. They are our world leaders.

So we pray God gives them wisdom.

I think we (all of us) would do better with that wisdom than they would. Sit them all down, and ask Trump, Putin, and the rest of the 'world leaders' what they ACTUALLY intend on doing. Because if I applied their same ethos in life, I'd be chased by the men in white coats and thrown into an insane asylum.

We need that wisdom, not them.

 

[The Righterzpen]

You appeal to an authority you believe intervenes, you can't actually demonstrate that God voted Trump in anymore than you could demonstrate God send a tornado in Jackson TN that narrowly avoided killing people because they were believers or otherwise?

God's will is accomplished. Apparently it's God's will that Trump is our leader because he did become president. I didn't like Obama; but it was God's will he had become president too.

Nothing happens outside of God's providence. Whether we like the events or not.

I find prayer in regards to politics as much of a waste of energy as prayer in general, but moreso in terms of something that has demonstrable consequences: legislation, etc.

You don't understand the purpose of prayer.

So again; if this thread is really about praying for Iran; why are you responding to this thread if you find that notion offensive?

 

[The Righterzpen]

I think we (all of us) would do better with that wisdom than they would. Sit them all down, and ask Trump, Putin, and the rest of the 'world leaders' what they ACTUALLY intend on doing. Because if I applied their same ethos in life, I'd be chased by the men in white coats and thrown into an insane asylum.

We need that wisdom, not them.

We all need that wisdom.

As far as what any world leader "intends to do"? There's a lot going on under the scene that we don't know about. And factors that arise, "prevent" or change intentions all the time.

The same corruption (ethos in life as you say); you see everywhere. Some people are better at hiding it than others. I dealt with an extremely vindictive school administrator who targeted me and my child simply because I exposed her dishonest dealings to the district. She got "nailed" by me with documentation so frequently that eventually she went on to become some other school district's problem. I think the school board told her to go find another job or they were going to can her because she was costing the district too much in legal fees due to IDEA due process hearing requests.

Yet that "ethos" is all over the place though. I'm sure you've run into it in the workforce. Sin is pervasive.

 

[muichimotsu]

God's will is accomplished. Apparently it's God's will that Trump is our leader because he did become president. I didn't like Obama; but it was God's will he had become president too.

Nothing happens outside of God's providence. Whether we like the events or not.

And you wonder why I commented that the notion seems to encourage passivity and shirk responsibility: your actions are little to nothing in regards to what God wants, unless you just go with the end-times angle to explain why what you think is right because God wants it isn't happening (God's ways are mysterious!)

You don't understand the purpose of prayer.

So again; if this thread is really about praying for Iran; why are you responding to this thread if you find that notion offensive?

I can understand the purpose without agreeing that it's actually demonstrable that you can link anything to it, because it's fundamentally unfalsifiable, something I should've realized back in Sunday School: God can answer yes, no, or not right now, you basically cover all your bases, there's nothing you can't say God is answering in regards to the prayers, even if nothing remotely suggests it

A person can comment in terms of particular things that overlap without necessarily agreeing with every part of the idea in the thread. We can both agree Iran needs help, I just don't think the help requires an interventionist God and such. Call me pragmatic on that.

 

[The Righterzpen]

We can both agree Iran needs help,

Amen.

I just don't think the help requires an interventionist God and such.

Yet this thread is about appealing to God to help Iran and all of us; so if you disagree with that premise; there's no reason for you to respond to this thread.

And this is correct. There are three basic answers to prayer: Yes, No and Wait.

 

[Nithavela]

And this is correct. There are three basic answers to prayer: Yes, No and Wait.

Just remember that yes is twice as likely as no or wait.