Practicing the gifts...

[Carl Emerson]

Not everyone agrees with this, including many highly respected and influential leaders in the Body of Christ with the fruit to back it up. And I'll just leave it at that.

As for the mess. My opinion is that it was not due to the gifts, but rather due to doing things out of order and without any spiritual covering.

First off, being highly respected does not mean you can't be in error.

Secondly - to clarify - do you think it is wise to hold a meeting for anyone to attend in which participants are instructed to deliver each other from demons?

 

[topher694]

First off, being highly respected does not mean you can't be in error.

Secondly - to clarify - do you think it is wise to hold a meeting for anyone to attend in which participants are instructed to deliver each other from demons?

Well first off that door swings both ways and applies to you just as much. Second, when one of the main the reasons you are highly respected is your expertise and fruit in this exact area it reduces the likelihood of said error somewhat.

As to your question. In the manner you described it is very unwise, but the main reason it is unwise is the lack of order and supervision and experience in the room. That is never a good thing, but demons will take full advantage of it making it even worse.

That being said, I have a tremendous amount of experience and fruit in this department, including training others (probably hundreds), and I do have people do deliverance on one another as a part of that training. But it is done under my direct supervision and with explicit order taught beforehand.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I think I need to clarify - the incident I was called to sort out, was a private meeting in a house that occurred immediately after the persons involved had attended a public meeting in which folks were directed to practice deliverance on each other.

I have no doubt that what ensued was due to encouraging confidence in a spiritual area of service that the individuals were not equiped to deal with.

 

[ARBITER01]

Practicing the gifts...

Valid or not ??? and why...

Never seen it happen, and I'm not sure that I would call it a modern trend.

About the only gifts that we would possibly practice in the assembly would be the inspirational gifts (tongues, interpretation, prophesying) to help develop the correct and proper use of them during service.

Other gifts are not available to us to step out and operate by our own faith.

 

[NBB]

As far as i know 'seek the better gifts' means not every christian have this, and probably you would need to live a good christian life to get them from God (if that is what he wants) because is the Holy spirit who gives them right?

 

[topher694]

I think I need to clarify - the incident I was called to sort out, was a private meeting in a house that occurred immediately after the persons involved had attended a public meeting in which folks were directed to practice deliverance on each other.

I have no doubt that what ensued was due to encouraging confidence in a spiritual area of service that the individuals were not equiped to deal with.

That was my understanding from what you described. In this case the people in the house were being unwise, likely out of ignorance, but the minister at the public meeting, if he did indeed direct them to do this, was being reckless. So much so that if this had been recent instead of long ago, I'd PM you for details and check with my spiritual covering to see if we had any connection or way to bring correction to the situation so it didn't happen again.

That being said the reason it was reckless is not because of the gifts, it is because they were sent out to do so out of order. Without covering, without oversight or anyone with experience present. The gifts were not the issue, order was. This is why Paul finishes up the 3 chapters revolving around the gifts of the Spirit with: let everything be done decently and in order. It was the thing that he chose to emphasize last in that section so it would be the thing that would be remembered most. Lack of order causes chaos. Chaos is was you experienced.

 

[Carl Emerson]

That was my understanding from what you described. In this case the people in the house were being unwise, likely out of ignorance, but the minister at the public meeting, if he did indeed direct them to do this, was being reckless. So much so that if this had been recent instead of long ago, I'd PM you for details and check with my spiritual covering to see if we had any connection or way to bring correction to the situation so it didn't happen again.

That being said the reason it was reckless is not because of the gifts, it is because they were sent out to do so out of order. Without covering, without oversight or anyone with experience present. The gifts were not the issue, order was. This is why Paul finishes up the 3 chapters revolving around the gifts of the Spirit with: let everything be done decently and in order. It was the thing that he chose to emphasize last in that section so it would be the thing that would be remembered most. Lack of order causes chaos. Chaos is was you experienced.

Yes, you have pretty much summed it up...

 

[spiritfilledjm]

As far as i know 'seek the better gifts' means not every christian have this, and probably you would need to live a good christian life to get them from God (if that is what he wants) because is the Holy spirit who gives them right?

As a prerequisite, not at all. At least not in the biblical accounts where folks who got saved were then immediately filled with the Holy Spirit with evidence like prophesy and speaking in tongues and the like.

 

[Francis Drake]

Yes! the gifts continue...

What I meant by practicing the gifts in this case was brothers and sisters being encouraged to deliver each-other from demons (with no concern as to whether they had the gifts or preparation from God to do so). This practice comes from the wrong assumption that all have all of the gifts (which is not biblical.) The result was a spiritual mess.

Sorry I did not make that clear enough it seems.

Casting demons out is for all Christians and has nothing to do with gifts.

 

[Francis Drake]

As far as i know 'seek the better gifts' means not every christian have this, and probably you would need to live a good christian life to get them from God (if that is what he wants) because is the Holy spirit who gives them right?

According to Jesus the Father pours the Holy Spirit on those who ask, not those who live a good christian life.

 

[topher694]

Casting demons out is for all Christians and has nothing to do with gifts.

Yes and no. The gifts, like Discerning of Spirits, can greatly assist in deliverance, but they not a requirement.

 

[Carl Emerson]

As a prerequisite, not at all. At least not in the biblical accounts where folks who got saved were then immediately filled with the Holy Spirit with evidence like prophesy and speaking in tongues and the like.

I think indwelled are filled are two different things...

Jesus was indwelled before He was filled.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes and no. The gifts, like Discerning of Spirits, can greatly assist in deliverance, but they not a requirement.

Don't you need to know if you are dealing with a spiritual intrusion or not???

 

[ARBITER01]

I think indwelled are filled are two different things...

Jesus was indwelled before He was filled.

Correct.

We are sealed with The Holy Spirit when we are born again, then subsequent to that, we can be filled with The Holy Spirit if we ask, seek, and receive.

 

[topher694]

Don't you need to know if you are dealing with a spiritual intrusion or not???

I'm not 100% what you mean by spiritual intrusion, but if it is what I think you mean, yeah, it would be much harder without the gifts in operation, and you'd open yourself up to being deceived.

 

[Blade]

It is one thing I am not sure how many Churches teach on gifts and such. I know some that do which is very wise. Just read on this Christian site. Gifts even "faith" not talked about that much. To read when Peter was in jail and the angel set him free. They were praying for him. He shows up and their first thought was .. it was Peters angel.

Yeah.. ever think that about anything? Yet they are around us doing the Fathers will.. His word. Not about angels lol. We read call on the elders and they will be healed and forgiven. We even read "the Holy Spirit said".

So we need places to learn just how God moves works speaks.

 

[topher694]

It is one thing I am not sure how many Churches teach on gifts and such. I know some that do which is very wise. Just read on this Christian site. Gifts even "faith" not talked about that much. To read when Peter was in jail and the angel set him free. They were praying for him. He shows up and their first thought was .. it was Peters angel.

Yeah.. ever think that about anything? Yet they are around us doing the Fathers will.. His word. Not about angels lol. We read call on the elders and they will be healed and forgiven. We even read "the Holy Spirit said".

So we need places to learn just how God moves works speaks.

The key is it can't just be taught, it needs to be continually demonstrated for people to truly recognize and grow in the gifts.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The key is it can't just be taught, it needs to be continually demonstrated for people to truly recognize and grow in the gifts.

Much of my learning came from being on the cutting edge of the Kingdom among inner city dwellers so if God didn't show up you were toast.

My Pastor said that the church was not within a bulls roar of what we were doing in the inner city.

We learned by doing.

 

[topher694]

Much of my learning came from being on the cutting edge of the Kingdom among inner city dwellers so if God didn't show up you were toast.

My Pastor said that the church was not within a bulls roar of what we were doing in the inner city.

We learned by doing.

Agree 100%. I just mean leadership should set the example.

 

[ARBITER01]

It is one thing I am not sure how many Churches teach on gifts and such. I know some that do which is very wise. Just read on this Christian site. Gifts even "faith" not talked about that much. To read when Peter was in jail and the angel set him free. They were praying for him. He shows up and their first thought was .. it was Peters angel.

Yeah.. ever think that about anything? Yet they are around us doing the Fathers will.. His word. Not about angels lol. We read call on the elders and they will be healed and forgiven. We even read "the Holy Spirit said".

So we need places to learn just how God moves works speaks.

There's a slight problem involved with this,.... too many people can't agree on what the gifts do and what they don't do.

Currently, we have a whole heap of self appointed Christian prophets in the body of Christ saying all sorts of oddball stuff on youtube and elsewhere who were all wrong about recent events. Are they repentant about it? Not at all.