Post-tribulation Rapture Believers Safe House

Thuycidides

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The only thing that is specifically said to be in a moment and the twinkling of the eye is the resurrection itself, not necessarily the ascension of the church into the air to meet with the Lord.

Jesus ascended with a cloud receiving Him, and the two witnesses ascend in a cloud, even as Jesus, and so shall the church ascend with clouds in the sight of all enemies of God, who will fear and give glory to God, but still not repent.

With the 1st resurrection being only one event, then that must occur with the two witnesses in Rev 11, and in like manner.

Scripture does not say they will become alive and then stand up to their feet, but only that one moment they are dead corpses, and the very next moment in the twinkling of the eye they are seen standing upon their feet. (The Greek concurs: a past action verb: something that happened sometime in the past and is still happening at present)

3 things occur with the resurrection: the Lord's descends with a shout, the voice of the archangel, and the sound of the last trump.

At least 2 of those things are mentioned in Rev 11: the voice of the archangel saying come ye up here, and the sound of the 7th trumpet, which is the last trump to sound.

And the sounding of the last trump is accompanied with great voices declaring the kingdoms of the world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and He shall reign. His reign begins over earth while meeting His church in the air. All that remains is the battle of foregone conclusion.
 
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drmerejay

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The only thing that is specifically said to be in a moment and the twinkling of the eye is the resurrection itself, not necessarily the ascension of the church into the air to meet with the Lord.

Jesus ascended with a cloud receiving Him, and the two witnesses ascend in a cloud, even as Jesus, and so shall the church ascend with clouds in the sight of all enemies of God, who will fear and give glory to God, but still not repent.

With the 1st resurrection being only one event, then that must occur with the two witnesses in Rev 11, and in like manner.

Scripture does not say they will become alive and then stand up to their feet, but only that one moment they are dead corpses, and the very next moment in the twinkling of the eye they are seen standing upon their feet. (The Greek concurs: a past action verb: something that happened sometime in the past and is still happening at present)

3 things occur with the resurrection: the Lord's descends with a shout, the voice of the archangel, and the sound of the last trump.

At least 2 of those things are mentioned in Rev 11: the voice of the archangel saying come ye up here, and the sound of the 7th trumpet, which is the last trump to sound.

And the sounding of the last trump is accompanied with great voices declaring the kingdoms of the world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and He shall reign. His reign begins over earth while meeting His church in the air. All that remains is the battle of foregone conclusion.
 
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U.S. Grant

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Post-tribulation is misleading for the time of resurrection of the church.

There are two kinds of tribulation in Revelation: the tribulation of wrath from the dragon upon the saints, which purifies and prepares them for the glory to come (Dan 12:10)(2 Tim 2:21), and the tribulation the wrath of God upon the persecutors of the saints, which condemns them as Sodom and Gomorrah to an overthrow without repentance (2 Peter 2:26):

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile. (Rom 2)

The first tribulation of the first beast is that of temptation, deception, and persecution upon the saints, and the next and last tribulation of the Lord's second coming is that of plagues of vengeance, for vengeance is mine saith the Lord; I shall repay.

At the end of the first great tribulation is the resurrection of the church, who are promised much tribulation on this earth as necessary to enter into the kingdom of God. (Acts 14:22)

Though they are promised the wrath of the dragon, they are not ordained to the wrath of God, and so will endure unto the end hatred of the beast, and will be with the Lord in the air, when His tribulation and anguish comes upon the worshippers of the beast left behind on this earth.

So, the resurrection of the saints is post-tribulation of the dragon, and pre-tribulation from the Lord.

That separation is at the death of the two witnesses. For 3 1/2 days there shall be no tribulation on earth, while the beast and persecutors enjoy their devilish purim celebration over their corpses. But at the resurrection, the tribulation on this earth is now from the Lord in the air, and heir rejoicing will be cut off.
 
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BobRyan

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Now that we have our own thread, how do we convince the pre-tribbers that the rapture is really at the end?

Matt 24 "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days... He will send His angels.. to gather His elect...from one end of the sky to the other.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

It just does not get any easier than that.

So, the resurrection of the saints is post-tribulation of the dragon, and pre-tribulation from the Lord.


I think the tribulation includes both the persecution of the saints and the 7 last plagues of Rev 16 - - so then the rapture is happening at the appearing of Christ as Matt 24 says - and as we see in Rev 19 going to Rev 20:5
 
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U.S. Grant

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Matt 24 "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days... He will send His angels.. to gather His elect...from one end of the sky to the other.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

It just does not get any easier than that.




I think the tribulation includes both the persecution of the saints and the 7 last plagues of Rev 16 - - so then the rapture is happening at the appearing of Christ as Matt 24 says - and as we see in Rev 19 going to Rev 20:5

It just does not get any easier than that.

I agree. There really is no manipulation of the Greek for another translation to deny it. It's as solid as the Word was God. And I have seen some mighty fine pretzel shapes of retranslation, in order to deny the Word was 'really' God, and then made flesh.

The elect is the elect. It is not unsaved 'elect' nations that did good for the saints. They are the saints in Christ Jesus, being made war with by the first beast.

And so, what about the plain Scripture of the saints not being appointed to wrath of God, which the plagues certainly are:

And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

Them that are caught unaware as wicked servants will be appointed to it. (Matthew 24:51)

I see no Scripture for a 'partial' resurrection, that is 'phased in' over time. Them that have part in the first resurrection of the blessed, are simply them that are members of the body of Christ in particular, or rather in part (1 Cor 12:27):

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

In this manner, we are in part the body of Christ: we are now sitting in heavenly places, yet also walking in natural bodies, waiting for the Lord and the change of our vile bodies to immortality. Those bodies shall be changed in a single moment at the day of His coming to perfect His people, so they shall no longer be in part, but perfectly complete in Him with resurrected spiritual bodies: arrived.

How then are them not appointed to nor enduring the wrath of God on earth, yet still on the earth during those plagues of wrath?

The only thing sure about the resurrection is that it will be in a moment and twinkling of an eye: instantly, so that no man can see it occur with the mortal eye.

That is how the two witnesses will be resurrected: in one moment they are corpses on the ground, and in the next instant they are standing upon their feet. They were not resurrected to life from the dead while yet laying down, and then stood up on their feet.

Once being resurrected in spiritual bodies, they are no longer subject to the things of the flesh, nor natural events of the earth.

This will be the case in the first resurrection for all saints: the dead rising in Christ first, and them alive and remaining changed to immortality, instantly.

And then they will rise together with resurrected bodies to meet with the Lord in the air. Scripture does not say they will rise immediately, but Scripture does show that the resurrected witnesses on earth, will be seen by mortal eyes standing upon their feet., which is a passing of time on earth.

Therefore, who says the all the saints rise straightway into the air after being resurrected upon the earth? In books and movies they speak of an instant vanishing from the earth, but they also speak of that vanishing rapture before any great tribulation comes on the earth, and they are wrong.

Therefore, the end of the tribulation of the beast upon the saints is the resurrection of all saints of history standing upon their feet on the earth in immortal spiritual bodies.

So, with plagues of wrath of God following, they will not endure any of it, no longer being subject to such physical, even supernatural, events.

They will all be as the children of Israel during the plagues upon Egypt, who were not affected thereby, having the blood of the Lamb upon the doorposts of their hearts, which were opened to Him, while yet in natural bodies.

There will be a period of time of the plagues of the last great tribulation on earth, when the rebellious will gather themselves together to make war with the Lamb Himself (Rev 17), while His resurrected saints remain eternally alive on earth.

At the end of those plagues, they will rise to meet Him in the air, being gathered by the angels from all corners of heaven and of earth, and then the Lord will destroy the wicked at Armageddon with the brightness of His coming.

The tribulation of the dragon is to purify the saints, and the plagues of the tribulation of God will be the bombardment to soften up of His enemies, while His resurrected saints remain standing upon the earth, not being subject to it in the flesh.
 
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BobRyan

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It just does not get any easier than that.

I agree. There really is no manipulation of the Greek for another translation to deny it. It's as solid as the Word was God. And I have seen some mighty fine pretzel shapes of retranslation, in order to deny the Word was 'really' God, and then made flesh.

Agreed a few groups do try that - but they are wrong to do so - the text does not support the view that Jesus was not in fact God the Son incarnate.
 
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BobRyan

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The elect is the elect. It is not unsaved 'elect' nations that did good for the saints. They are the saints in Christ Jesus, being made war with by the first beast.

And so, what about the plain Scripture of the saints not being appointed to wrath of God, which the plagues certainly are:

And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

Them that are caught unaware as wicked servants will be appointed to it. (Matthew 24:51)

The plagues do not fall on the saints - just as Israel was protected in Egypt during the last 7 plagues of those Ten plagues in Egypt

I see no Scripture for a 'partial' resurrection, that is 'phased in' over time. Them that have part in the first resurrection of the blessed, are simply them that are members of the body of Christ in particular, or rather in part (1 Cor 12:27):

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

The "first resurrection" in the future Rev 20:3-5 is the one that happens for the "dead in Christ" 1 Thess 4:13-18 and Rev 20 says "over these - the second death has no power".
 
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bannerman

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I have some musings about the Millennium. After the bowls of wrath, wars and terraforming Jesus does upon His return, do you think there will be any church buildings left standing?

If there are, do you think people will still go to church in the Millennium? And if they do what it be like if Jesus walked into your church? Would you just focus your eyes on Him while worshiping, would it seem odd to worship a man?
 
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PeterJennen

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I have some musings about the Millennium. After the bowls of wrath, wars and terraforming Jesus does upon His return, do you think there will be any church buildings left standing?

If there are, do you think people will still go to church in the Millennium? And if they do what it be like if Jesus walked into your church? Would you just focus your eyes on Him while worshiping, would it seem odd to worship a man?

Hi Bannerman! Are you still on Christian Forums? You are the only one to post this year. I'm new here and would like to dialogue.

Pete
 
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PeterJennen

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What would you like to talk about?


Please forgive me for the amount of information I’m dumping here. My computer time is limited.

A Time, and Times, and a Half of Time

Most Christian scholars say the following verses from Daniel are a future event. I say that some of these prophecies have already been fulfilled, and some are in the process of being fulfilled in the present A.D. dispensation. I do not believe that “a time, and times, and half a time” is a 3 ½ year event.

We have to pick up the subject back in Daniel, chapter 11. Dan 11:40-45 And at the time of the end... And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

“I see Rome in the planted tabernacles of his palace.” So, we are at the time of the end. Now what?

Dan 12:1-2 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.

Michael stands up.

Rev 12:7-17 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child]. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

If “time, times, and a half” is only 3 ½ years, the remnant of the woman’s seed wouldn’t be very big. Let’s not forget about them that sleep in the dust of earth awakening.

Mat 27:50-53 50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

This happened almost 2000 years ago. Why did they arise?

1Pet 3:18-19 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" 1Pet 4:6 "For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

How long is the time of the end? Remember Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Dan 12:3-10 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. (There is only one way to be righteous, and that is to repent and believe upon Jesus Christ.) 4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. 5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. 6 And [one] said to the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, How long [shall it be to] the end of these wonders? 7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished. 8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what [shall be] the end of these [things]? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Rev 10:5-7 5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, 6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. (Dan 12:8 fulfilled.)

1Co 15:50-55 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

We are changed at the last (7th )trumpet, those of us that are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Rev 11:15-18 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Rev 14:6-13 KJV 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. 8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed [are] the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The ONLY way to be Holy is to believe upon the Lord, Jesus Christ.

On a side note: If you do a concordance search for the word “tribulation”, and read the verses in context, you will see how it is described as a future event before Jesus paid the price on the cross, and it is described as a current event after Jesus paid the price on the cross.

I hope you can see, we are changed at the end of the tribulation. I should add here: The great tribulation is not worse than any other, it is unlike any other. The tribulation is great, that is, it is large, vast, like the flood that comes out of the serpents mouth. Might the word "great" mean it is long?
 
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The tribulation is great, that is, it is large, vast, like the flood that comes out of the serpents mouth. Might the word "great" mean it is long?


No, because it is specifically said to be shortened even more than originally intended.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

"great" tribulation means worse than regular tribulation in this context, not long since it is being shortened.
 
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5thKingdom

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Hello 5thKingdom,
I'd like to talk about, "Time, times, and a half."


The Great Tribulation is called the "night" when no man could work
(no man can save - because the last of His sheep had been found)


Joh 9:4
I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day:
the night cometh, when no man can work.


Here is the Biblical context of that passage:


John 9:4
I must work the works of Him that sent Me, while it is day [during the (3rd) Christian "Kingdom"
... or the "Church Age"]:
the night cometh, [during the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom"]
when no man can work [when our "testimony is finished", as all of the "lost sheep"
must be saved before Satan is "loosened"]
5 As long as I am in the world,
I am the Light of the world.



Important Note
2Th 2:6-9 reveals the Holy Spirit must be "taken out of the way"
before Satan can be "loosened" for this "night", or his "little season".
This "night" is shown as (1) Daniel's Fourth Beast and (2) the Revelation Beast
and (3) the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" and (4) the rule of THE Antichrist
and (5) Satan's "little season" after being loosened from the Bottomless Pit.



AND... we know absolutely that the PEOPLE living during Daniel's Fourth Beast are
the SAME PEOPLE as those living during the Revelation Beast and the SAME PEOPLE
as those living during the Great Tribulation and the SAME PEOPLE as those living during
the rule of THE AntiChrist and the SAME PEOPLE as those living in Satan's "little season".
We know this absolutely because (in each case) they are the PEOPLE living on earth when
the Lord Returns... some who are "changed" in the "twinkling of an eye" at the Last Trump.



The Lord explained there were four "watches of the night" before His Return [Mark 13:35]
These four "watches" occur during the Great Tribulation and/or Revelation Beast.
The Lord even named each watch:


1) at the even [watch]
2) at the midnight [watch]
3) at the cockcrowing [watch]
4) in the morning [watch]


And the Lord explained His servants would be "blessed" if they were looking for Him
during each of the watches:


Luk 12:38-39
And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so,
Blessed are those servants. And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known
what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house
to be broken through.


Unfortunately, I can only offer "milk" now - there's so much "meat" involved here.
While the (KJV) Bible translates Strong's G5438 as the word PRISON exactly 40 times,
it translates the word as "watch" [of the night] only five times... indicating the four
separate-and-distinct periods of the Great Tribulation were a PRISON for the Saints
living during the Fourth "Kingdom of Heaven"... because Satan and his Anti-Christ
ruled over these Last Saints for 3.5 "watches/times/days/years".


Note: the fourth "watch" was "shortened" for the sake of the Elect [Mat 24:22],
which is why Satan's "prison" was only for 3.5 "watches".


When the Bible says the Anti-Christ rules for 3.5 "times", that indicates he is destroyed
during the fourth "watch of the night".

When the Bible says the prophets lay dead in the street for 3.5 "days", that means
they arise during the fourth "watch of the night".

When the Bible says the Anti-Christ treads the Kingdom forty-two months (3.5 years)
it means it ends in the fourth "watch of the night".

No denomination, church or pastor can pretend to understand the events - or the chronology -
of the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom unless they can separate Daniel's Fourth "Kingdom of Heaven"
(the Revelation Beast) into four separate-and-distinct "watches/times/days/years".


In Daniel 7, these people are called ten "horns" and ten "kings".
In Revelation 17 these people are AGAIN called ten "horns" and ten "kings"
In Matthew 25, these people are called ten "virgins".


The Bible speaks about these people in DOZENS of passages... under different NAMES.
We must be able to harmonize EACH of those passages - regardless of what NAME
those people are called in that passage.

The "Woman" [the Last Saints] who are hidden from the face of the Serpent
for 3.5 "times" [Rev 12]


The "Holy People" [the Last Saints] whose power is scattered by the Anti-Christ
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 7]


The "Kings" [the Last Saints] that are given into his hand (into the Anti-Christ's hand)
for 3.5 "times" [Dan 7]


The "Witnesses" [the Last Saints] which are first overcome, and then later killed, by Satan
for 3.5 "days" [Rev 11]


The "Holy City" [the Last Saints] which the Anti-Christ treads under foot for forty-two months
or 3.5 "years" [Rev 11]


The "Kingdom" [the Last Saints] who are under the power of the Anti-Christ for forty-two months
or 3.5 "years" [Rev 13]


These four "watches of the night" are shown as 3.5 "times" and 3.5 "days" and 3.5 "years"
(forty-two months). The events shown happening in the passages about these "times/days/years"
all represent the same events, and the people living during these four "watches of the night"
are all the same people, the same "wheat and tares" living on earth when the Lord Jesus Returns
in Glory, and the Resurrection occurs.


No denomination, no church or preacher can offer an informed opinion about these events
(or these people) unless they can harmonize the four "watches of the night"... and the
experiences of the ten "Horns/Kings/Virgins", which are shown in DOZENS of passages.


While the people alive during Daniel's Fourth Kingdom are shown [Mat 25] as the "Ten Virgins"
that "went forth" into the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"... and they are shown [Dan 7]
as the "Ten Kings" and the "Ten Horns" that were "given into the hand" of the Anti-Christ...
and they are shown [Rev 17] as the "Ten Kings" and the "Ten Horns" that "agree to give
their Kingdom to the Beast
", the Bible contains dozens of other passages talking about
these same people and every single one of those passages must be harmonized - before
anyone can even pretend to understand more than partial-truth.


Here are some more passages talking about those SAME PEOPLE
living during the SAME PERIOD shown as (1) Daniel's Fourth Beast and
(2) the Revelation Beast and (3) the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"
and (4) the reign of THE AntiChrist during (5) Satan's "Little Season" on earth.


The "Horns" that were "plucked up" by the Anti-Christ [Dan 7]

The "Host and Stars" that were "cast down" by the Anti-Christ [Dan 8]

The "Kingdom" which the Anti-Christ "obtains with flatteries" [Dan 11]

The "Kingdom" that is "overflown" and "broken" by the Anti-Christ [Dan 11]

The "Mighty and Holy People" who are "destroyed" by the Anti-Christ [Dan 8]

The "Sanctuary and Host" that are "trodden under foot" by the Anti-Christ [Dan 8]

The "Arms" that "shall stand on his part" [stand on the Anti-Christ's part]
and "pollute the Sanctuary" [Dan 11]

The "Ten Virgins" who "went forth" [preaching the gospel of the Anti-Christ]
during the Fourth Kingdom [Mat 25]

The "Sanctuary" that is "polluted" by the Anti-Christ [and his "arms"] during
the Fourth "Kingdom of Heaven" [Dan 11]

The "Locusts" that arise [under the Anti-Christ's rule] and "torment" all of the "tares"
that remain within their churches [Rev 9]


In conclusion, the 3.5 "times/days/years/watches of the night" all represent the time
Satan and the "Little Horn" rule over the FOURTH "Kingdom" on earth - the period called
(1) Daniel's Fourth Beast and (2) the Revelations Beast and (3) The Great Tribulation and
(4) the rule of THE AntiChrist during (5) Satan's "Little Season" after being loosened from
the Bottomless Pit and before being cast into the Lake-of-Fire [Rev 20:10]


Jim
 
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5thKingdom

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Please forgive me for the amount of information I’m dumping here. My computer time is limited.


Please see post #518
The 3.5 "times/days/years/watches of the night" all represent the PEOPLE living during
(1) Daniel's Fourth Beast and (2) the Revelation Beast and (3) the Great Tribulation "Kingdom"
and (4) the reign of the "Little Horn" or THE AntiChrist during (5) Satan's "Little Season" between
when he is loosened from the Bottomless Pit and when he is cast into the Lake of Fire [Rev 20:10]

Jim
 
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5thKingdom

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No, because it is specifically said to be shortened even more than originally intended.


Please see post # 518
Yes, the Great Tribulation (also shown as (1) Daniel's Fourth Beast and (2) the Revelation Beast and
(3) the reign of the "Little Horn" or AntiChrist during (4) Satan's "Little Season"


However only the fourth "time/day/year/watch" was SHORTENED for the sake of the Elect.


So... if you do not understand WHAT the "times/days/years/watches" represent IN TIME
then you have no ability to offer an informed opinion on WHAT period was shortened or
HOW MUCH the period was shortened. However, the Bible does provide that information.


Jim
 
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