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Post-tribulation Rapture Believers Safe House

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Sojourner1, Apr 11, 2011.

  1. Endtime Survivors

    Endtime Survivors prophecy link in my profile!

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  2. Guide To The Bible

    Guide To The Bible Guide To The Bible

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    Very soon Satan himself will appear on Earth looking just like Jesus but he will claim to be Isa, the Muslim name for Jesus and will say the Muslims are right and the Christians are wrong. Most Christian's will believe this which will cause the great falling away. Satan (Isa) will also appear with superior technology that people will assume is of extraterrestrial origin. Satan will then select the Muslim Mahdi as the new ruler of the World; This is the Anti-Christ. The real Jesus will return seven years after this event.

    During these years anyone who resists this ruler in the name of the Christian Jesus will be beheaded. The global economy will collapse, poverty and hunger will increase. Food supply will be rationed and one country after another will eventually be forced to adopt the mark of the beast system. This will be a chip implant that allows you to buy and sell food etc, that Satan (Isa) will provide with his technology. The last country to fall to this system will be Israel.

    At the beginning of the 7 years Israel will have just rebuilt the Temple on the Temple mount in Jerusalem and will have restarted it sacrifices. The new High Priest will be the False Prophet and he and the Anti-Christ will hate each other just as the Bible says.The High Priest and the Israeli government will agree to the 7 year peace treaty that the Anti-Chirst will impose on many countries around the world but after three and half years the Anti-Christ will invade Israel and stop the sacrifices. Then 1290 days later Israel will be forced to finally accept the mark of the beast as their supplies of food run out. There will be final period of 45 days and then the real Jesus will return. Thank God.

    The Two Witnesses will be two very normal Christian men who will already have end times ministries. They will travel to Jerusalem and begin the last 1260 days of their ministry on the Temple mount, just after the sacrifices are stopped. Then just before the Mark of the Beast implant system is set up in Jerusalem they will be killed by Satan's forces that will have been unleashed on Earth 5 months before Jesus returns. The Witnesses will survive the first three and half months of this onslaught of Satan's 200 million strong demonic army spoken of in Revelation. Three and a half days after they are killed they will resurrect and ascend to heaven. Then the Mark will be set up. The last 45 days will be the worst time in the history for world. By the time Jesus returns most (at least 80%) of humans will have been killed. When Jesus returns he will destroy everything on the surface of the Earth with fire from Heaven and the rapture will happen, first the dead in Christ then the living. The only people to survive will be non-Christians hidden deep under ground.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
  3. prophetic774

    prophetic774 Newbie

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  4. prophetic774

    prophetic774 Newbie

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    The following passage from God's Word completely contradicts the Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib and Pre-Wrath fairy tales since it shows that the NT Church saints and the lost are resurrected and judged on the **SAME DAY**!!
    2 Thessalonians 2:1,6-10: To the **CHURCH** of the Thessalonians... God is just. He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen **WHEN** the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with His powerful angels {See Matthew 25:31-46}. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of His power **ON THE DAY** He comes to be glorified in His holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. THIS INCLUDES YOU** {CHURCH SAINTS IN Thessalonia!!}
     
  5. TKICBS

    TKICBS TKICBS Supporter

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    So where is the thread for two raptures as described in 2 thess: A gathering after the wicked one is revealed and the Holy Ghost taken out of the way before the wicked one is revealed?
     
  6. DingDing

    DingDing Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, but you might be looking for something that isn't there. God is not taken out of the way ever. A gathering after the AoD, yes.
     
  7. TKICBS

    TKICBS TKICBS Supporter

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    So who then is "He who now lets" and who is "the restrainer"? And who is the child in Rev 12?
     
  8. tootsietam

    tootsietam Newbie

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    The restrainer is Michael who now holds back the evil look at Daniel chapter 12 verse one and pay close attention to it please and see for yourself that once Michael the archangel stands up then the trouble comes such as has never been and many in that time will be made white and be purified.

    Then go on over to Revelation 12 and see that is when satan is defeated in the war in heaven and is then sent down. Then the Lord Jesus opens the seals and introduces the judgments seal one trumpet one vial one happening simultaneously. The great falling away comes first per Revelation chapters two and three.

    Look at John 6:39,40,44,54 and John 11:24 then go look at 1 Thess 4:13-17 and see how perfectly that goes with Jesus own words about the last day resurrection of the saints. Psalm 18 read and marvel at the last minute rescue according to David and what His coming looks like on the clouds with power and great glory. Then go on over to revelation 14 and see for yourself verses 14-16 and then 17-20 shows no sooner do we get reaped (and the reapers are the angels the Lord sends out to gather together his own from the four corners of the heavens or earth. Matthew 13:39 tells us the reapers are the angels and they gather us the last day the end of the world as far as satans control of it) No sooner do we get reaped, than the Lord pours out the wrath of God and making the blood rise to the horses bridle.

    Zechariah 14:12-17 shows us what Armageddon looks like as Jesus pours the fiery sword of the word out upon the evil of this world and utterly consumes them where they stand.

    The seals trumpets and vials are going together like this, Seal one trumpet one, vial one. Seal two, trumpet two, vial two. Seal three trumpet three and vial three. Seal four, trumpet four, vial four. Seal 5 changes things up. Trumpet five and vial five go off, then trumpet 6 and vial 6 and then we see the sixth seal is the end and trumpet 7 and vial 7 go off with seal 6 and seal 7 is actually the rewarding of the saints who have been lifted off the earth by the reaping angels, which is why there is half hour of silence in the heavens.

    I have been studying this for 38 years and have had the Lord give me visions and accompany those visions with these bible verses. Ask Him and have Him show you the truth, He will show you.
     
  9. FredVB

    FredVB Regular Member

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    How will it be known distinctly that Michael specifically is removing the restraining of evil from this world? Does this mean he will be seen, and recognized, with how he restrained evil seen as well?
     
  10. tootsietam

    tootsietam Newbie

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    How can I possibly answer if it will be seen? All I can answer is what the Lord gave me that Michael is the restrainer and that once he stops holding evil back it is let loose on the earth full fledged and the war in heaven coincides with satan being thrown down onto the earth never to enter heaven again.

    Remember 2 Thess 2 how the falling away comes first, (the falling away is when the Lord judges the house of God first) and then the antichrist is revealed in the temple calling himself god and demanding worship of himself with the mark being fully enforced. Read the word for yourself and see that when and only when Michael stands up then trouble occurs doesn't that right there tell you plenty?

    Michael in chapter ten of Daniel it is told us is the protector of the elect of God, this is one more showing of the fact that Michael is keeping us for now. Psalm 91 is what the Lord said is our protection through the tribulation, per Revelation 3:10. the Greek for keep from, Terrio's ek, means watch over guard protect. And a little something extra for you to maybe get it a little easier. John 17:15 is the same meaning in the Greek as Revelation 3:10.

    Hope this helps you but I honestly am nowhere near knowing what will be seen by men, and what will be happening in the spirit only.
     
  11. FredVB

    FredVB Regular Member

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    Daniel 10:13 is a key verse for this, and Daniel 12:1 shows Michael stands watch over the sons of your (Daniel's) people, it does not indicate Michael over all God's people, it would rather be the people of Israel. Maybe for you it sounds like this who it sounds like it would be in 2 Thessalonians 2:7, but it isn't saying it in a way that I can make the connection.

    I know I have heard it was the Spirit of Yahweh, the Holy Spirit. I don't know it for certain, but it makes enough sense that I don't know it couldn't be, in its meaning.

    I can see really trouble coming if restraint from Yahweh's Spirit is taken away, that is very believable, and doesn't involve then anyone standing up, which doesn't seem related.
     
  12. tootsietam

    tootsietam Newbie

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    So now wait a minute here? You are saying that Michael is only for Israel? How about the scriptures that say there is no difference between Jews and gentiles in Christ Jesus? How do you separate God's love for Israel and God's love for the elect of God the chosen the ones who are in Christ? Where do you ever see such a thing as God treating people different from one another?

    Galatians 3:26-29

    Sons and Heirs
    26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
    Joel 2:29
    "Even on the male and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
    John 17:11
    I will no longer be in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to You. Holy Father, protect them by Your name, the name You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one.
    Romans 3:22
    And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction,
    Romans 3:29
    Is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,
    1 Corinthians 12:13
    For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free, and we were all given one Spirit to drink.
    Galatians 3:14
    He redeemed us so that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
    Galatians 3:26
    You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

    Does that help you? Why is there war in heaven and satan is thrown down and woe to the inhabitants of the earth because satan has come down to you in great wrath and then all hell breaks loose upon this earth?

    The tribulation is merely 3.5 years long 1260 days how do you not know this? As soon as Michael stands up there is trouble such as has never been when Michael throws satan out and evil is unleashed upon the earth how can you not put that together with the great tribulation? AS SOON AS MICHAEL STANDS UP!!!!! Get it as soon as Michael stands up, as soon as Michael stands up the trouble comes, it tells us straight forward, as soon as Michael stands up the trouble comes!!
    Dan 12:1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
    The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
    And there shall be a time of trouble,
    Such as never was since there was a nation,
    Even to that time.
    And at that time your people shall be delivered,
    Every one who is found written in the book.

    Do you not recognize yourself as one of God's people? I am Ekklesia (Ekklesia=chosen the elect of God) I am not a church I am part of the body of Christ so all who believe in Christ rather they be Jew or Gentile is truly Israel we don't replace them they do not replace us or nullify us and we do not take their place either.
    In Romans 4:1-16 it explains that Abraham is the father of us all, we are joint heirs with Abraham and his seed. Romans 2:28 tells us we are not Jews because of circumcision. This is majorly important stuff here.
     
  13. FredVB

    FredVB Regular Member

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    I have heard this explanation of Michael before, this doesn't make it so, but I can see how it is that it would be that way with Michael called the one over "your people" to Daniel, and nothing to suggest it isn't so.

    I don't know enough of everything in what is to come of what is prophesied. I wouldn't preach, but I don't see that any should as though knowing it all, that I can speak where I see weakness in conclusions. It isn't like the gospel, with truth in it important to know to share it.

    This is confusing what is said in the discussion, when nothing was said for there being distinction on Yahweh's love and grace toward Jews, the people of Israel, and Gentiles, or for what there is for their salvation, and there isn't distinction there. There is distinction for the people of Israel in things of the covenant that have them distinct as Jews, and what is unconditionally promised for the people of Israel. There are the people who are not faithful that will not obtain, but there is unconditional promise that there will be the remnant of the people of Israel that will all be saved. The salvation will be the same way as for all, through Christ, and they will be a testimony to the world.

    I believe, though I can't know such that I would preach it, that this has already happened long ago. Satan would not still be in the heaven now.

    I see from Daniel that there would be the seven years that are to come. I don't see the significance with what is caused from standing up.
     
  14. tootsietam

    tootsietam Newbie

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    How do you read Daniel 12:1 and the whole of it and continue to not understand that when Michael stands up what happens? Here read it again. “At that time Michael shall stand up,
    The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
    {And there shall be a time of trouble,
    Such as never was since there was a nation,
    Even to that time.
    And at that time your people shall be delivered,
    Every one who is found written in the book.} Look at the stuff in the parenthesis and realize only once Michael stands up does that trouble come which has never been before.

    Then realize the war in heaven yes most certainly satan is in the heavens still and read the book of Job how satan goes up into heaven and the Lord asks him where he's been and what he's been doing. The war in heaven has not occurred yet. I am sorry but you are trying to see with your human eyes and need the eyes of the Holy Spirit to see it correctly!

    Don't ever take anyone's even my words over the truth of the Word of God. Pray for the Holy Spirit to fill you with understanding wisdom and knowledge, and the whole truth, then you will marvel at how wonderfully He answers you. Knowing the truth of the whole word is the only way we are fully in Christ. I am not saying any of us can know it the whole of the word of God in pure truth but we sure can come quite close with the Holy Spirit giving us the truth. You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. John 8:32
     
  15. FredVB

    FredVB Regular Member

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    I will explain myself, look below to see what I show I can see of this passage you use.

    It is reading all that you do into Michael standing up, which has nothing else in all the Bible said about it, that suggests, to you or anyone else concluding it, that standing up (from sitting and waiting to stand up all this time, really?) will cause a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation, until that time. I explain, there is that time coming with trouble to the descendents of Daniel's people as never before, and at this time Michael will stand up, not that this does anything itself, but he will stand up to do action that is waiting, on their behalf at that time. I don't know but that actually could be what is to summon Christ at his return to defeat the people attacking Israel all the way to Jerusalem.

    In that passage there is no mention of Heaven, to conclusively show Satan was appearing before the manifest presence of Yahweh in Heaven. I see it more probable that Satan came among the sons of God outside of Heaven, and no evil entered into Heaven. I think that the war to cast Satan to the earth happened in the heavens, but not in the very realm of Heaven, where there can never be evil.
     
  16. tootsietam

    tootsietam Newbie

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    You apparently do not care to do the studying required to understand this simple thing. It shows us very clearly that when Michael stands up moves out of the way all of a sudden there is great distress on the earth such as has never been before and never will be again according to Jesus!

    Now then you go on over to the war in heaven at Revelation 12 and see that Michael the archangel and his angels fight against satan and throw him and his minions down to the earth, and woe to the inhabitant's of the earth satan has come down to you with great wrath knowing he has a little time left.

    The bible together tells the whole story if you cannot find it how it all works together then i despair of you ever coming to any truth, because you do not want the truth. Are you a pre tribber by chance come here to the post tribulation page just to try and cause trouble? Because if you are well the by laws need to be read again by you.

    Find the truth for yourself in the word of God with the Holy Spirit only not men women or anyone else just you and the Word and the Lord through the Holy Spirit then you can maybe find the truth if indeed you have been chosen besides being called.
     
  17. FredVB

    FredVB Regular Member

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    Why say this personal remark? That I don't see this one verse the same way you do means I don't care for studying the Bible? I don't respond to personal statements, but this one post for some clarity.

    This doesn't show me clearly it is causing the time of trouble from Michael standing up, and it isn't clear that it would be seen by people that Michael is doing that, such that this fulfillment is recognized, and rather it does leave the understanding that Michael will be responsive.

    Yet Heaven itself where Yahweh is manifest on his throne never had any sin or evil, so that it is never corrupted. Satan though is thoroughly evil, in rebellion to Yahweh. In the battle when he is cast to the earth it is from the heavens, since it wouldn't be from the realm of God's Heaven.

    I come to this to engage with discussion in Christian fellowship with other believers taking part in it, with questions to anything I don't see. I don't see that this discussion is involving when the "rapture" is at all. Is this the response for a disagreement with any?

    I have looked at this:
    Statement of Purpose - Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose
    I see I am observing what is stated there.
     
  18. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I've never believed in a pretribulation rapture but because dispensational eschatology is so popular I've read a lot of it. It just seems so obvious to me, the Church confronts the Antichrist.
     
  19. Sam81

    Sam81 God has heard

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    Thank God the Father that there are fellow believers grounded enough in the Word of God, sensitive to the Holy Spirit and the Truth of the Lord Jesus Christ, to understand the Bible on this matter.

    I am not saying that pre-trib Christians are going to hell. No - many are saved and even spirit filled. They're not like Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons...pre-trib theology is not heresy. But they are mistaken. And it's so good to see post-trib Christians represented here.

    There is absolutely nothing Biblical about pre-trib teachings. They like to cherry pick and take things completely out of context. In any case, I used to believe the same thing. But I could no longer deny the Word of God - I did not have a way to rationalize my way out of these two verses:

    2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come (Day of Christ), except there come a falling away first (Great Apostasy - what's happening now in former Christian countries), and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

    John 15:20-21 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they (those damned) have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they (those who belong to Christ) have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they (the damned) do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

    I'm sure Jesus would've have liked for a rapture to have occurred for His sake, as He sweat blood and begged the Father to spare Him the agony He was soon to endure. But He didn't get it. God did not grant Him victory in His great travail - and neither shall the Father spare us, nor grant us victory, in our coming travail. Revelation 13:7.

    The Word of God is true.
     
  20. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    I Agree!

    I'm Post Trib Also, "Immediately After The Future Tribulation" Second Advent, Resurrection, Final Judgment, Eternal Kingdom, On The Last Day.

    I Was Surprised To Learn That Many Post Trib Hold A (Partial Preterist) View Of Eschatology?

    They Teach The Great Tribulation Took Place In 66-70AD?

    They Teach That The Book Of Revelation Chapters 1-19 Have Been Fulfilled?

    I Was Totally Unaware Of This Teaching?

    Truth7t7 :)
     
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