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Post Millennialism safe house

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by JM, Aug 31, 2020.

  1. Hammster

    Hammster Safeism is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Good video.
     
  2. JM

    JM Particular Baptist Supporter

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    From Greg Bahnsen's book, "Victory in Jesus"

    1. As postmillennialists we champion the inspiration, infallibility and sole doctrinal authority of the Bible...

    2. We are not postmillennialists because we have some kind of understanding of man's inherent goodness. Evangelical postmillennialists believe that fallen man it totally unable to do any saving good, cannot atone for his sins, and cannot become a member of the kingdom of God except through the redemptive work of the Savior and the regeneration work of the Holy Spirit...

    3. Postmillennialists teach the glorious personal return of Jesus Christ at the end of history to judge the world...

    4. We insist that at His first advent, Jesus, the Son of God, came as the messianic mediatorial King and established His saving kingdom among men on earth...We believe that Jesus is presently the King...

    5. Postmillennialist are painfully aware that those who belong to the Lord Jesus Christ-the church itself-those who belong to Him-are appointed to suffering in this world...You will be afflicted in this world. So we are not whistling in the dark or engaging in some kind of Pollyanna wishing thinking. This is not postmillennialism.

    6. Postmillennialist believe that the gospel is to be preached to all nations, by the Church, prior to the second advent of Christ. Eventually, this will bring worldwide conversion...

    7. Postmillennialism maintains that the victorious advance of Christ's kingdom in this world will take place in terms of the present peaceful and spiritual power of the gospel, rather than through a radically different principle of operation, namely, physical force and earthly violence in order to subdue opposition...

    8. Postmillennialism believes in the gradual growth and success of the kingdom of god by the power of the Holy Spirit working through the Church's preaching of the gospel...

    9. Postmillennialists are not committed to the view that each and every individual on earth is going to be saved...

    10. Postmillennialists believe that there will be a final apostasy-a falling away just prior to the return of Christ, and that Satan will be loosed and he will deceive the nations again...
     
  3. JM

    JM Particular Baptist Supporter

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  4. JM

    JM Particular Baptist Supporter

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    There are different stripes of Postmillennialism and although I lean toward orthodox preterism I still can't shake the Historicist application of Revelation. Here is an article worth reading.

    Quote:

    Why Orthodox Puritan (Historicist) Postmillennialism Must Be Accepted:
    Puritan Postmillennialism posits that Christ comes after a millennial period of great blessing and advance of the truth and the Gospel.

    Why does Puritan Postmillennialism best explain Biblical prophecy?

    1) The binding of Satan must refer to the progress of the Gospel because it is reversible. The advance of the Gospel is subject to divinely ordained ebbs and flows. The presence of periods of revival in the history of the church supports this understanding.

    2) The 1,000 years must refer to a period of great Gospel advance.

    It does not represent the whole New Testament age. It is a comparatively long period which precedes a comparatively short period in which Satan is loosed again for a season and then we have the last day before the eternal state.

    It is an appointed and complete period of time (10 x 10 x 10 indicates a prolonged period of time), when Satan’s opposition to the Gospel is limited and coincides with the reign of the saints and comes after many have been martyred for the name of Jesus (Rev 20:4).

    It ends before the close of the New Testament age (Rev 20:3,7).

    3) The reign of Christ refers to the glorious advance of the cause for which the martyrs died.

    Judgment was given unto them. Here, judgment means the vindication of one’s righteous cause. The Lord avenges the deaths of the martyrs.

    Daniel 7:21-22

    21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

    22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

    The antichrist who sought to wear them out is destroyed. The judgment is not given to the SAME saints Antichrist persecuted but rather to their spiritual successors. The unprecedented advance of the Gospel cause vindicates them and their cause.

    Rev 6:

    9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

    10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

    11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    This takes place during the millennium.

    The FULL vindication is at Christ’s second coming

    4) The first resurrection is the glorious revival of the Church on Earth (cause for which the martyrs suffered). A period that ends before the end of the NT age. Not a physical resurrection because it can be reversed as it will be for a season.

    5) The second resurrection (v. 5) is the resurgence of ungodliness at the end of the millennium that brings in Satan’s little season. This is confined to the “rest” (not resurrection of “all”). After this, Christ comes in judgment.

    6) Confirming evidence:

    Parallels with Ezekiel 37-48

    37: Israel’s revival, Destruction of Gog and Magog, Vision of beautiful temple

    Rev 20 -22: Millennium, Destruction of Gog and Magog, Holy City and beautified temple

    THEN: The vision of the dry bones brought to life is a parallel to the REVIVAL of the church, the most glorious period of the Gospel.

    Destruction of Antichrist in Dan 7:26

    26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

    27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

    2 Thess 2:8 gives greater weight to the view that this man of sin (the Papacy) will be destroyed by the breath of the spirit of the Christ’s mouth and with the brightness of his coming.

    The spirit of His mouth is a reference to Isaiah 11:4

    4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

    The Word of His Mouth: the Gospel proclaimed and preached will bring the man of sin down: it will end popery.

    The future revival will outshine the Reformation of the 15-16th Century because the papacy survived it. It will not survive the breath of Christ’s mouth in the millennium.

    Romans 11:12,15,25

    Israel’s rejection is not final. The remnant will become a fullness.

    12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

    15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

    They will be brought INTO the Church through the GOSPEL, not separately in a different organization. And it will bring greater blessings still to the Gentiles.

    25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    Mystery: an unfolding of God’s purposes (i.e. Ephesians 3)

    It connects back to Ezekiel 37 and Rev 20! The dry bones brought to life.

    Psalm 72:17, 19

    17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.

    19 And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.

    For more on the final victory: c.f. Psalm 86:9; 102:16,21; Isaiah 60:8-12,16

    The vision of the glorious millennium can be practically seen and tasted by the mind in the words of Malachi:

    Malachi 1:11

    11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

    The Biblical Case For Puritan Postmillennialism
     
  5. JM

    JM Particular Baptist Supporter

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  6. JM

    JM Particular Baptist Supporter

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  7. Hammster

    Hammster Safeism is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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  8. JM

    JM Particular Baptist Supporter

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    Same.

    Is it just me or does Postmil the middle way between the overly literalistic approach of Futurism and the overly allegorical approach of Idealism (Amil)? A lot of theological pieces fall nicely in place within the Postmil eschatological system, I still unsure of orthodox Preterism, but there are a lot of over lapping elements within the Historicist framework.

    Where you at with Preterism?

    Yours in the Lord,

    jm
     
  9. Hammster

    Hammster Safeism is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I think that postmillennialism and partial preterism are the same thing. And I have settled on postmillennialism because it’s the view that doesn’t need fancy footwork to make it work. It is firmly rooted in the OT. It’s also firmly rooted in the fact that Jesus is king right now, and is ruling over His kingdom and will continue to grow it.
     
  10. JM

    JM Particular Baptist Supporter

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    Exactly. Do you see multiple embodiments in prophecy?
     
  11. Hammster

    Hammster Safeism is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I’m not sure what you mean.
     
  12. JM

    JM Particular Baptist Supporter

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    Multiple fulfillments, one prophecy has a duel fulfillment.
     
  13. JM

    JM Particular Baptist Supporter

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    The importance of biblical thinking....then apply that to eschatology.
     
  14. JM

    JM Particular Baptist Supporter

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    The First Resurrection

    John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
     
  15. JM

    JM Particular Baptist Supporter

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  16. Hammster

    Hammster Safeism is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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  17. JM

    JM Particular Baptist Supporter

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  18. JM

    JM Particular Baptist Supporter

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    From the link above.

    Zechariah 14 and the Coming of Christ

    By Gary DeMar
    President - American Vision
    Home - The American Vision

    In the premillennial view of Bible prophecy, the events depicted in Zechariah 14 are most often interpreted as depicting the second coming of Christ when Jesus will descend from heaven and stand on the Mount of Olives and from there set up His millennial kingdom. The chronology outlined in Zechariah, however, does not fit this scenario. Events actually begin in chapter thirteen where it is prophesied that the Shepherd, Jesus, will be struck and the sheep will be scattered (Zech. 13:7). This was fulfilled when Jesus says, "'You will all fall away, because it is written, "I WILL STRIKE DOWN THE SHEPHERD, AND THE SHEEP SHALL BE SCATTERED"'" (Mark 14:27).

    What follows describes events leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. God will act as Judge of Jerusalem and its inhabitants. As the king, He will send "his armies" and destroy "those murderers, and set their city on fire" (Matt. 22:7).

    For I will gather all the nations [the Roman armies] against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered [Matt. 24:17],the women ravished [Luke 17:35], and half the city exiled [Matt. 24:16], but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city" (Zech. 14:2).

    This happened when the Roman armies, made up of soldiers from the nations it conquered, went to war against Jerusalem. Rome was an empire consisting of all the known nations of the world (see Luke 2:1). The Roman Empire "extended roughly two thousand miles from Scotland south to the headwaters of the Nile and about three thousand miles from the Pillars of Hercules eastward to the sands of Persia. Its citizens and subject peoples numbered perhaps eighty million."1 Rome was raised up, like Assyria, to be the "rod of [His] anger" (Isa. 10:5). "So completely shall the city be taken that the enemy shall sit down in the midst of her to divide the spoil. All nations (2), generally speaking were represented in the invading army, for Rome was the mistress of many lands."2 Thomas Scott, using supporting references from older commentators and cross references to other biblical books, writes that Zechariah is describing the events surrounding Jerusalem's destruction in A.D. 70.

    The time when the Romans marched their armies, composed of many nations, to besiege Jerusalem, was "the day of the Lord" Jesus, on which he came to "destroy those that would not that he should reign over them" [Matt. 22:1Â10; 24:3, 23Â35; Luke 19:11Â27, 41Â44]. When the Romans had taken thecity, all the outrages were committed, and the miseries endured, which are here predicted [Luke 21:20Â24]. A very large proportion of the inhabitants were destroyed, or taken captives, and sold for slaves; and multitudes were driven away to be pursued by various perils and miseries: numbers also, having been converted to Christianity, became citizens of "the heavenly Jerusalem" and thus were "not cut off from the city" of God [Gal 4:21Â31;Heb. 12:22Â25].3

    Forcing these series of descriptive judgment to leap over the historical realities of Jerusalem's destruction in A.D. 70 so as to fit a future judgment scenario is contrived and unnecessary.

    Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle (14:3).

    After using Rome as His rod to smite Jerusalem, God turns on Rome in judgment. Once again, Assyria is the model: "I send it against a godless nation and commission it against the people of My fury to capture booty and to seize plunder, and to trample them down like mud in the streets . . . . So it will be that when the Lord has completed all His work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem, He will say, 'I will punish the fruit of the arrogant heart of the king of Assyria and the pomp of his haughtiness'" (Isa. 10:5Â6, 12Â13). "It is significant that the decline of the Roman Empire dates from the fall of Jerusalem."4 Thomas Scott concurs: "It is also observable, that the Romans after having been thus made the executioners of divine vengeance on the Jewish nation, never prospered as they had done before; but the Lord evidently fought against them, and all the nations which composed their overgrown empire; till at last it was subverted, and their fairest cities and provinces were ravaged by barbarous invaders."5

    And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south (Zech. 14:4).

    It is this passage that dispensationalists use to support their view that Jesus will touch down on planet earth and set up His millennial kingdom. Numerous times in the Bible we read of Jehovah "coming down" to meet with His people. In most instances His coming is one of judgment; in no case was He physically present. Notice how many times God's coming is associated with mountains.

    "And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. . . . Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech" (Gen. 11:5, 7).
    "So I have come down to deliver them from the power of the Egyptians, and to bring them up from that land to a good and spacious land, to a land flowing with milk and honey. . . (Ex. 3:8).

    "Then Thou didst come down on Mount Sinai, and didst speak with them from heaven. . . (Neh. 9:13a).

    "Bow Thy heavens, O LORD, and come down; touch the mountains, that they may smoke" (Psalm 144:5).

    "For thus says the LORD to me, 'As the lion or the young lion growls over his prey, against which a band of shepherds is called out, will not be terrified at their voice, nor disturbed at their noise, so will the LORD of hosts come down to wage war on Mount Zion and on its hill'" (Isa. 31:4).

    "Oh, that Thou wouldst rend the heavens and come down, that the mountains might quake at Thy presenceÂ" (Isa. 64:1).

    "When Thou didst awesome things which we did not expect, Thou didst come down, the mountains quaked at Thy presence" (Isa. 64:3).

    In Micah 1:3 we are told that God "is coming forth from His place" to "come down and tread on the high places of the earth." How is this descriptive language different from the Lord standing on the Mount of Olives with the result that it will split? Micah says "the mountains will melt under Him, and the valleys will be split, like wax before the fire, like water poured down a steep place" (1:4). "It was not uncommon for prophets to use figurative expressions about the Lord 'coming' down, mountains trembling, being scattered, and hills bowing (Hab. 3:6, 10); mountains flowing down at his presence (Isaiah 64:1, 3); or mountains and hills singing and the trees clapping their hands (Isaiah 55:12)."6

    What is the Bible trying to teach us with this descriptive language of the Mount of Olives "split in its middle"? The earliest Christian writers applied Zechariah 14:4 to the work of Christ in His day. Tertullian (A.D. 145Â220) wrote: "'But at night He went out to the Mount of Olives.' For thus had Zechariah pointed out: 'And His feet shall stand in that day on the Mount of Olives' [Zech. xiv. 4]."7 Tertullian was alluding to the fact that the Olivet prophecy set the stage for the judgment-coming of Christ that would once for all break down the Jewish/Gentile division. Matthew Henry explains the theology behind the prophecy:

    The partition-wall between Jew and Gentiles shall be taken away. The mountains about Jerusalem, and particularly this, signified it to be an enclosure, and that it stood in the way of those who would approach to it. Between the Gentiles and Jerusalem this mountain of Bether, of division, stood, Cant. ii. 17. But by the destruction of Jerusalem this mountain shall be made to cleave in the midst, and so the Jewish pale shall be taken down, and the church laid in common with the Gentiles, who were made one with the Jews by the breaking down of this middle wall of partition, Eph. ii. 14.8

    You will notice that there is no mention of a thousand year reign. Yet, we are told that "the LORD will be king over all the earth" (14:9). So what is new about this language? "For the LORD Most High is to be feared, a great King over all the earth. He subdues peoples under us, and nations under our feet" (Psalm 47:2, 3). This is exactly what happened with the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Paul told the Roman Christians that "the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet" (Rom. 16:20). The church's adversary (Satan) were those Jews who rejected Jesus as the Messiah and persecuted His Bride, the church (see John 16:2). Jesus calls them a "synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 3:9).


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    NOTES

    1. Otto Friedrich, The End of the World: A History (New York: Coward, McCann and Geoghegan, 1982), 28.

    2. G. N. M. Collins, "Zechariah," The New Bible Commentary, F. Davidson, ed., 2nd ed. (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1954), 761.

    3. Thomas Scott, The Holy Bible, Containing the Old and New Testaments, According to the Authorised Version; with Explanatory notes, Practical Observations, and Copious Marginal References, 3 vols. (New York: Collins and Hannay, 1832), 2:955

    4. Collins, "Zechariah," 761.

    5. Scott, The Holy Bible, etc., 956.

    6. Ralph Woodrow, His Truth is Marching On: Advanced Studies on Prophecy in the Light of History (Riverside, CA: Ralph Woodrow Evangelistic Association, 1977), 110.

    7. "Tertullian Against Marcion," Book 4, chapter XL, in The Ante-Nicene Fathers, 3:417.

    8. Matthew Henry, Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible, 6 vols. (New York: Fleming H. Revell, n.d.), 4:1468.
     
  19. Hammster

    Hammster Safeism is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Dug deep for that one. :)
     
  20. JM

    JM Particular Baptist Supporter

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    Always diggin, always reading...

    Gab Social - Postmil Group
     
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