Pope Francis: There is a retreat from democracy

[public hermit]

Pope Francis claims there is skepticism about democracy and attraction towards authoritarianism and populism. There is a retreat from democracy due to various factors: concern for security, the dulling effects of consumerism, excessive nationalistic demands, fear, partisanship, etc.

Pope Francis:
Politics is, and ought to be in practice, a good thing, as the supreme responsibility of citizens and as the art of the common good. So that the good can be truly shared, particular attention, I would even say priority, , should be given to the weaker strata of society. This is the direction to take.

Let us help one another, instead, to pass from partisanship to participation; from committing ourselves to supporting our party alone to engaging ourselves actively for the promotion of all.

Pope Francis in Greece: ‘We are witnessing a retreat from democracy.’

Is Pope Francis on to something significant? Is there a "retreat from democracy" for the reasons he gives?

 

[Points To Ponder]

The Pope is and has been laying the foundation for a One World Religion and it will be necessary for a One World Government to accomplish that. Peace and Safety will be the justification. It's really exciting to see prophecy unfold. Be steadfast in your walk of faith.

 

[public hermit]

Peace and Safety will be the justification

So, you agree with Pope Francis that fears about security and national interests tend to make authoritarianism and populism seem more attractive than democracy?

 

[Albion]

Pope Francis claims there is skepticism about democracy and attraction towards authoritarianism and populism.

Is Pope Francis on to something significant? Is there a "retreat from democracy" for the reasons he gives?

Could be, but it's not because he has a history of, or reputation for, opposing those things.

 

[public hermit]

Could be, but it's not because he has a history of, or reputation for, opposing those things.

You mean Francis opposes democracy, or he's coincidentally correct in what he claims are the reasons for skepticism about democracy?

He seems to think democracy is a mean between populism and authoritarianism, and he thinks democracies (not just in Europe) are failing to live up to their ideas. Of course, the context is his concern for refugees, which is notable. Are democracies failing to live up to their ideals in the treatment of refugees?

 

[lismore]

Pope Francis claims there is skepticism about democracy and attraction towards authoritarianism and populism.

If he is correct that would be very dangerous I think. Hopefully he would be opposed to such a thing.

Sadly I think democracy has been corrupted in our societies. An example would be bias in the media. I am in favour of media and a free press. But very often organisations like the BBC show a clear bias. Here is one example:

BBC bias and the Scots referendum - new report | openDemocracy

If you don't want to read this whole article the summary would be that upon statistical analysis of news coverage of a referendum campaign a bias of 3:2 was found in reporting towards one side of the debate. It should have been 1:1, open handed, impartial and fair.

Sadly I think news organisations seem to be more about influencing the news than reporting on it.

It does seem that society is more polarized than it has ever been, as Christians I think it is good to bring fairness and respect to every discussion. Stand for truth yes, but do it gently and respectfully and avoid all extremes.

God Bless

 

[public hermit]

Sadly I think news organisations seem to be more about influencing the news than reporting on it

I agree.

Stand for truth yes, but do it gently and respectfully and avoid all extremes.

The extremes are killing us. Maybe things will level off? I keep waiting for people to get tired of every thing being so divided and partisan. But maybe that's wishful thinking.

 

[chevyontheriver]

You mean Francis opposes democracy, or he's coincidentally correct in what he claims are the reasons for skepticism about democracy?

He says a lot of things. Sometimes contradictory things. He's not always careful, precise, or accurate. Politically he acts like a Peronist much of the time. Happily politics is outside of the ken of popes, even if some of the other recent ones have been more politically astute. You don't have to take what pope Francis says about politics any more seriously than what anybody else says.

Democracy is in trouble. I think everybody knows it. Even the pope. "This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it." Admiral Painter, Hunt For Red October.

 

[Points To Ponder]

So, you agree with Pope Francis that fears about security and national interests tend to make authoritarianism and populism seem more attractive than democracy?

I'm not sure what direction the Pope is coming from on this issue. Is the Pope saying that authoritarianism is the best solution to solve health, safety, and environmental issues? He seems to support OWG for these reasons. The reality is that a OWG is all about world domination and control. I'm not sure his reality and his definition of authoritarianism are on the same page. I go in the opposite direction. Less Federal Government and more State control.

 

[public hermit]

. Is the Pope saying that authoritarianism is the best solution to solve health, safety, and environmental issues?

I don't think so. He seems to be saying democracy is the sweet spot between authoritarianism and populism, but the world's democracies aren't living up to their democratic ideals.

 

[public hermit]

The Pope is and has been laying the foundation for a One World Religion and it will be necessary for a One World Government to accomplish that.

In an interview today, Pope Francis touched on this very topic of a one world government. But instead of promoting it, he says it should be avoided. And, perhaps surprisingly, he indicates a possible one world government is one of the dangers of populism. He said this in the context of discussing the EU and how the EU needs to respect the integrity of individual countries. It doesn't sound like Francis is promoting a one world government at all.

Neither should we fall into populism, where the people — we say the people, but it is not the people, but a dictatorship of “us and not the others” — think of Nazism, nor fall into watering down our identities in an international government. On this, there is a novel written in 1903 (you will say “how old-fashioned this pope is in literature!”) written by Benson, an English writer, “Lord of the World,” who dreams of a future in which an international government with economic and political measures governs all the other countries, and when you have this kind of government, he explains, you lose freedom and you try to achieve equality among all; this happens when there is a superpower that dictates economic, cultural and social behavior to the other countries. Democracy is weakened by the danger of populism.

Full Text: Pope Francis’ In-Flight Press Conference From Greece

 

[Points To Ponder]

In an interview today, Pope Francis touched on this very topic of a one world government. But instead of promoting it, he says it should be avoided. And, perhaps surprisingly, he indicates a possible one world government is one of the dangers of populism. He said this in the context of discussing the EU and how the EU needs to respect the integrity of individual countries. It doesn't sound like Francis is promoting a one world government at all.

Neither should we fall into populism, where the people — we say the people, but it is not the people, but a dictatorship of “us and not the others” — think of Nazism, nor fall into watering down our identities in an international government. On this, there is a novel written in 1903 (you will say “how old-fashioned this pope is in literature!”) written by Benson, an English writer, “Lord of the World,” who dreams of a future in which an international government with economic and political measures governs all the other countries, and when you have this kind of government, he explains, you lose freedom and you try to achieve equality among all; this happens when there is a superpower that dictates economic, cultural and social behavior to the other countries. Democracy is weakened by the danger of populism.

Full Text: Pope Francis’ In-Flight Press Conference From Greece

That's good. What do you think his position is on a One World Religion?

 

[public hermit]

That's good. What do you think his position is on a One World Religion?

Does he have one? If so, I'm not finding it. Do you have a link?

 

[Points To Ponder]

There may be something out there explicit on this but it's more about his messages of unity with those who are not Christian, Islam, Buddism, Judaism, Hinduism etc. His reconciliation inter-faith movement, Involvement in the United Religions Initiative, World Religious Leaders Summit, World Council of Religious Leaders. It looks to be the groundwork for a OWR. His recent statement that an atheist could still go to Heaven without being a believer just because the atheist allowed his children to attend Church. A watered-down Gospel and demotes Christ. Many see these things as troubling.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Wasn't the United States founded on Populism? Afterall, the US Constitution reads: "We the People", language written in direct opposition to rule by the British kingdom's elites.

 

[Landon Caeli]

...If this country was founded on a bad principle (populism), then at what point did it become bad, and why is it bad?

 

[public hermit]

Wasn't the United States founded on Populism? Afterall, the US Constitution reads: "We the People", in opposition to the British elite.

That's a good point. He seems to use populism as the extreme opposite of authoritarianism but not conducive to democracy. It would be nice to have a better sense of what he means by that term.

 

[public hermit]

Here's an interesting definition of populism by political scientist, Carlos de la Torre, "a Manichean discourse that divides politics and society as the struggle between two irreconcilable and antagonistic camps: the people and the oligarchy or the power block." That sounds a little more involved than a mere representation of the will of the people.

Populism - Wikipedia

 

[Landon Caeli]

That's a good point. He seems to use populism as the extreme opposite of authoritarianism but not conducive to democracy. It would be nice to have a better sense of what he means by that term.

I think I might see what the pope's saying... That populism tends to be *disruptive* to an already established system. And Authoritarianism is *harshness* expressed by an already established system, and that somewhere in the middle (democracy), everyone can work together as a functioning system.

...I think I learned something new today!

Thanks, @public hermit.

 

[Fantine]

I think that Pope Francis is reminding us that authoritarian forms of government are not always communistic. Communism fell in 1989, but there are still authoritarian dictators who lead by fear and intimidation and whose citizens live diminished, desperate lives. As a religious leader in South America he was caught in the middle between brutal dictators and struggling people fighting for justice, and in trying to keep a balance, was sometimes criticized for not supporting the people more. During this time, he was sent to spend several years in seclusion.

This experience showed him that authoritarianism can easiy become oppression with power-hungry leaders, and that authoritarian governments are dysfunctional.

He realized, as I have come to realize, that people of faith must fight on the side of human rights, and that oppressors who call themselves "populists" can be just as evil and controlling as communist dictators are.

As far as one world government goes, I believe in the UN, and do not beieve it is one world government. There are global problems which require nations to work cooperatively--addressing climate change, fighting the COVID pandemic. It is important for the wealthy nations to practice some debt forgiveness in the third world so that they can become self-sufficient.

Independent nations working cooperatively to solve global problems is a good thing.