Pope Francis, in Shift for Church, Voices Support for Same-Sex Civil Unions

[Arc F1]

I don't see that there are many Catholics who would chuck their religion and become right-wing Evangelical Protestants just because of what the Pope said about civil unions.

You are correct. Most people don't follow the teachings of Christ. I wouldn't expect them to all of a sudden start listening.

 

[Speedwell]

Yes, but the gay lobby, gay activists, absolutely refused to accept what the Pope is talking about.

Their demand was that gay unions be treated--and called--the same as the marriages of opposite sex couples. To use a different term or title was considered by them to be demeaning and, therefore, unacceptable.

Yes, they see a difference between civil marriage and the sacrament of Holy Matrimony. I wonder why you don't?

 

[Tiberius Lee]

How naive the Pope must be to think that this approach has a ghost of a chance of succeeding. It didn't before, so why would it now?

I can’t speak for Pope , but as a Christian I think everyone, regardless of their sexual orientation should get protection under the State law. As a Christian I believe homosexuality is sin, but I also believe adultery , fornication or other sexual activity outside marriage is sin, but I don’t think a fornicator or adulteress should not get protection under the law , so why should I oppose a homosexuals get the same protection under the law?

 

[Speedwell]

You are correct. Most people don't follow the teachings of Christ. I wouldn't expect them to all of a sudden start listening.

Be careful, Pot, of who you call black. You don't own the Christian religion, you just represent one minority strand of it. You are in no position to dictate to other Christians what they must believe beyond the fundamental tenets of the faith.

 

[Arc F1]

Be careful, Pot, of who you call black. You don't own the Christian religion, you just represent one minority strand of it. You are in no position to dictate to other Christians what they must believe beyond the fundamental tenets of the faith.

I can read and I do that often. The bible isn't complicated.

 

[Arc F1]

Be careful, Pot, of who you call black. You don't own the Christian religion, you just represent one minority strand of it. You are in no position to dictate to other Christians what they must believe beyond the fundamental tenets of the faith.

I'm out. Talk to you tomorrow. Thanks for listening.

 

[Albion]

...I don’t think a fornicator or adulteress should not get protection under the law , so why should I oppose a homosexuals get the same protection under the law?

I don't know. Why should you?

I was simply saying that the Pope's proposal will not fly, and if it is not acceptable to the gay community (or more precisely, to the gay activists) it will not become the compromise the Pope must be aiming for.

 

[Fantine]

Pope Benedict and John Paul were great scholars.

Pope Francis, a Jesuit, is obviously no slouch, but he also has an unsually high level of emotional intelligence. His many years in the third world have given him a much broader perspective on the Church's role in the world, instead of seeing it through a European prism focusing on sexual repression.

He is truly an "Urbis et Orbi" Pope. He sees how the most deadly sins of the prosperous countries (US, Europe, Pacific Rim primarily) have little to do with sexual immorality and everything to do with greed, consumerism, environmental degradation, materialism, and racism.

All of these sins affect not only those in our own countries but the survival of the entire planet.

When he thinks of the parable of the Good Samaritan, he tells us Americans that our neighbor is in Somalia...or Guatemala...or Myannmar...or Syria.

Our sins of omission, our failure to recognize the cries of those who share the earth with us, are so much greater than the sins conservatives rail about.

Thank you for your emotional intelligence, Pope Francis. Open our hearts, Lord.

 

[Swag365]

Yes, but the gay lobby, gay activists, absolutely refused to accept what the Pope is talking about.

Their demand was that gay unions be treated--and called--the same as the marriages of opposite sex couples. To use a different term or title was considered by them to be demeaning and, therefore, unacceptable.

Sure. They want more than that. I don't think that means that they will not accept anything less. Haven't many countries already enacted civil union laws? I don't think it's like you see gay activists going around trying to get those laws repealed.

 

[Albion]

Sure. They want more than that. I don't think that means that they will not accept anything less.

There is some degree of possibility, I agree. Maybe in some other country where the treatment towards gays has been savage, they'd be willing to go for any relief. But not in the West, and that appears to be what the Pope was mainly thinking of.

 

[Swag365]

There is some degree of possibility, I agree. Maybe in some other country where the treatment towards gays has been savage, they'd be willing to go for any relief. But not in the West, and that appears to be what the Pope was mainly thinking of.

That's fair.

 

[Speedwell]

Sure. They want more than that. I don't think that means that they will not accept anything less. Haven't many countries already enacted civil union laws? I don't think it's like you see gay activists going around trying to get those laws repealed.

I'm not sure I see why civil unions between gays should be called by a different name than civil unions between straights. "Marriage" is the traditional term for civil unions between straights and does not impinge on or detract from the sacrament of Holy Matrimony in any way that I know of. In any case, the legal ramifications of civil marriage which are spread throughout the body of laws generally use the term marriage and would all have to be ferreted out and changed to apply to "civil unions" as well. Civil marriage is not Holy Matrimony. Get over it.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

The pope is infalliable don't you know? That means that every single word said by a pope in the history of the world is correct.

Not being Catholic, I don't know. I know that Roman Catholics consider him "the vicar of Christ" but I don't know if that carries infallibility with the title. Thank you for clarifying. The next question I have is why would a Catholic criticize their infallible Pope as being wrong, i.e. fallible?

 

[Speedwell]

I can read and I do that often. The bible isn't complicated.

Yes, that's one of your doctrines--the doctrine of Perspicuity. Not all Christians share that doctrine, in fact most do not.

 

[rambot]

Well if there's one person who wouldn't know what the Bible's message is, the importance of the context that it came out of, nor how to properly approach the book from a hermeunical perspective, it would be the pope.

/s

 

[Speedwell]

The pope is infalliable don't you know? That means that every single word said by a pope in the history of the world is correct.

I should think you would be able to find enough about the Catholic faith to despise without having to make something up.

 

[Swag365]

I'm not sure I see why civil unions between gays should be called by a different name than civil unions between straights.

The laws governing civil unions would not be the same as the laws governing marriage. For example, if I marry a woman and we have children, there may be provisions relating to each of our rights vis-a-vis the children, child support in the case of divorce, alimony, etc. If I enter into a civil union with my younger brother, or my unemployed best friend (both of being straight males), for the purpose of obtaining health care, or other rights such as the ability to make certain end-of life decisions, there may not be a need for provisions relating to alimony.

"Marriage" is the traditional term for civil unions between straights and does not impinge on or detract from the sacrament of Holy Matrimony in any way that I know of.

No, the laws are not the same, as noted above.

In any case, the legal ramifications of civil marriage which are spread throughout the body of laws generally use the term marriage and would all have to be ferreted out and changed to apply to "civil unions" as well. Civil marriage is not Holy Matrimony. Get over it.

Is "get over it" directed to me? I don't necessarily oppose all forms of civil unions. It would depend on the specifics of the law, I think.

 

[Swag365]

I should think you would be able to find enough about the Catholic faith to despise without having to make something up.

I could not care less about what you think. Have a nice day.

 

[Swag365]

Not being Catholic, I don't know. I know that Roman Catholics consider him "the vicar of Christ" but I don't know if that carries infallibility with the title. Thank you for clarifying. The next question I have is why would a Catholic criticize their infallible Pope as being wrong, i.e. fallible?

I wasn't being serious. From what I understand Pope Francis has discontinued the use of the term, so at least at present I think it is a bit of a moot issue. Regardless, the Catholic faith does not teach that the pope is infalliable, or incapable of making error. It is only under very limited circumstances where that occurs. I think the last time infalliability was invoked was something like 70 years ago.

 

[Swag365]

Well if there's one person who wouldn't know what the Bible's message is, the importance of the context that it came out of, nor how to properly approach the book from a hermeunical perspective, it would be the pope.

/s

Well if there is a second person, it would be you. Have a nice day.