Pope Francis Honors Dutch Abortion Activist with Pontifical Medal of Knighthood

Original Happy Camper

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Pope Francis has conferred the title of “Commander of the Pontifical Equestrian Order of St. Gregory the Great” on Lilianne Ploumen, a Dutch politician and vocal agitator for abortion rights.
Last year, Ploumen founded a pro-abortion organization called She Decides, which offers funding and support for international NGOs that provide, facilitate or campaign for abortion.

Speaks like the dragon
 

Brian Mcnamee

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ugh how sad...Rick Warren hosted a mental health conference at his church a while back and I looked at the speakers and one was a democrat congressman. I looked up his voting record on abortion and gay marriage issues and he was on the wrong side of the fence on both and made a presenter at this conference on mental health. This is very similar and very sad and revealing.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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ugh how sad...Rick Warren hosted a mental health conference at his church a while back and I looked at the speakers and one was a democrat congressman. I looked up his voting record on abortion and gay marriage issues and he was on the wrong side of the fence on both and made a presenter at this conference on mental health. This is very similar and very sad and revealing.

IMHO they not know what they are doing.
 
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oOKnights TemplarOo

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Pope Francis has conferred the title of “Commander of the Pontifical Equestrian Order of St. Gregory the Great” on Lilianne Ploumen, a Dutch politician and vocal agitator for abortion rights.
Last year, Ploumen founded a pro-abortion organization called She Decides, which offers funding and support for international NGOs that provide, facilitate or campaign for abortion.

Speaks like the dragon

Not quite the story you make it out to be. Vatican: award for pro-abortion politician ‘not an endorsement’ of her views | CatholicHerald.co.uk
 
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chevyontheriver

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Pope Francis has conferred the title of “Commander of the Pontifical Equestrian Order of St. Gregory the Great” on Lilianne Ploumen, a Dutch politician and vocal agitator for abortion rights.
Last year, Ploumen founded a pro-abortion organization called She Decides, which offers funding and support for international NGOs that provide, facilitate or campaign for abortion.

Speaks like the dragon
Has the SDA hospital at Loma Linda, or all of the other Adventist hospitals, stopped doing abortions yet?
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Has the SDA hospital at Loma Linda, or all of the other Adventist hospitals, stopped doing abortions yet?

They will answer to the Creator/Judge for their actions. As will the Pope, and all that condone the killing of GOD'S children.
 
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chevyontheriver

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They will answer to the Creator/Judge for their actions. As will the Pope, and all that condone the killing of GOD'S children.
In your original post you said "Speaks like the dragon." I would say that Adventist hospitals that have not stopped doing abortions even act like the dragon. It's big news, a scandal even, when a Catholic hospital is caught tied to an abortion. It's old news for Adventist hospitals. It's big news, a scandal even, when an abortionist is inadvertently given a Catholic award. It's old news when an abortionist has full privileges at an Adventist hospital. So make a big deal about this award given by the pope to an abortion supporter. It is a scandal. It deserves to be condemned. It needs to be reversed. Then do something about the iceberg you find harder to see because it has nothing to do with the Catholic Church.
 
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oOKnights TemplarOo

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They will answer to the Creator/Judge for their actions. As will the Pope, and all that condone the killing of GOD'S children.



Moses and perhaps Paul were murderers and David was an adulterer and murderer. God uses us sinful human beings, yes even those who support abortion. So they may respond to His grace and change their lives, we give God greater glory and His presence is made more manifest in our sinful world.

The sinless Bride of Christ. Yet it is full of sinners. The Kingdom of God in our midst.
 
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Yarddog

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They will answer to the Creator/Judge for their actions. As will the Pope, and all that condone the killing of GOD'S children.
Why do you add the Pope to this group when he has condemned abortion so many times???
 
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chevyontheriver

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Why do you add the Pope to this group when he has condemned abortion so many times???
Because the pope stupidly gave an award to a Dutch politician who turns out is a rabid pro-abortion advocate. Because anything that makes the pope look bad is like red meat for an SDA member. Look, that award is scandalous. The justification for it, that it was because of her rank and not her positions, is pretty lame. The award should never have been given. It should be taken back. But then again some denominations should stop their hospitals from doing abortions. I think this award being rescinded is a bit more likely than some denominations stopping abortions in their hospitals.
 
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redleghunter

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I understand this was diplomatic:

Vatican: award for pro-abortion politician ‘not an endorsement’ of her views

Jan 16, 2018 at 5:36 am
The Vatican has distanced itself from the views of Lilianne Ploumen, a Dutch abortion advocate who was made a Dame in the Pontifical Order of St Gregory the Great. A spokeswoman said the award was “diplomatic practice” when an official is part of a delegation visiting the Pope, and has nothing to do with Ploumen’s views.


I wonder if Benedict XVI or John Paul II would did this too? I seriously doubt that and that is why several of my Catholic family members and friends get confused when Francis pulls stuff like this.
 
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Yarddog

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Because the pope stupidly gave an award to a Dutch politician who turns out is a rabid pro-abortion advocate.
Giving an award to a Dutch politician for the many years of service to her community and government is not endorsing everything that they do. Especially after they get out of government. As the poster said "As will the Pope, and all that condone the killing of GOD'S children." which is an out right lie since the Pope has condemned abortion in the strongest manner.

Look, that award is scandalous. The justification for it, that it was because of her rank and not her positions, is pretty lame.
She received it last June and I can't find if he knew that she had started her pro-abortion "She Decides" org, yet.
The award should never have been given. It should be taken back.
There are calls from several Bishops for it to be revoked.
 
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redleghunter

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Moses and perhaps Paul were murderers and David was an adulterer and murderer.
Yet they paid a temporal cost for their past transgressions. Moses did not enter the Promised Land, God said of Paul "For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.” David and Bathsheba lost their son.

They were not given rewards for their sinful behavior.

God uses us sinful human beings, yes even those who support abortion.

Yes a damned and destitute sinner coming to Jesus Christ in sorrowful repentance Glorifies God. Did Plouman repent before Francis or ask him for absolution?

So they may respond to His grace and change their lives, we give God greater glory and His presence is made more manifest in our sinful world.
As the Vatican stated this was a diplomatic gesture. Is it your position Francis awarded this to evoke a change to honor Church teachings on abortion. I don't even know if the woman is Catholic.
 
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redleghunter

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Giving an award to a Dutch politician for the many years of service to her community and government is not endorsing everything that they do. Especially after they get out of government. You said "As will the Pope, and all that condone the killing of GOD'S children." which is an out right lie since the Pope has condemned abortion in the strongest manner.
Just imagine if Trump did this!
 
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chevyontheriver

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Giving an award to a Dutch politician for the many years of service to her community and government is not endorsing everything that they do. Especially after they get out of government. You said "As will the Pope, and all that condone the killing of GOD'S children." which is an out right lie since the Pope has condemned abortion in the strongest manner.
You might note that I DID NOT say that. For the record. You might note that the original poster was a Seventh Day Adventist, and I called that poster on condemning the pope while Seventh Day Adventist Hospitals continue to do abortions.
So, you embrace sin in order to make a dig at the Pope? I'm sure Satan loves the words you use to show you embrace his agenda.
Huh? Go back and read ALL the posts in this thread SLOWLY and for comprehension and then get back to me.
There are calls from several Bishops for it to be revoked.
The sooner the better.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I wonder if Benedict XVI or John Paul II would did this too? I seriously doubt that and that is why several of my Catholic family members and friends get confused when Francis pulls stuff like this.
It is an embarrassment, for sure. Did he have a clue? Probably not. Should someone have flagged this before the award was given? Definitely. Did they do it intentionally to cryptically advance abortion? One has to wonder. There were some stupid things that happened under John Paul and Benedict too but this is crazy. It needs to be undone and those who allowed it need to wake up. If it not undone, I will begin to think there are some in the curia who actually do promote abortion. Not Francis himself. He's been three quarters clear on the subject.
 
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redleghunter

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Why do you add the Pope to this group when he has condemned abortion so many times???
He has. Yet does stuff like this. It confuses some of the flock.

This is not a Protestant vs. Catholic issue. I've marched as a Catholic and then with Catholics lock armed in defense of innocent life. The source of the article is not the MSM but the Catholic run Life Site News.

We have to ask the question on how Ploumen saw why she was awarded the medal.

Life Site News posted this:

Dutch abortion activist: Pope Francis honoring me is a ‘confirmation’ of my abortion work


Sources say that routine exchange of decorations was made between officials from the Vatican and from the Dutch delegation, and that the only reason Ploumen received the award was because she received it as part of that group.


Nevertheless, in a video posted to YouTube, Ploumen was seen discussing the award, which she held as she spoke with an interviewer, saying that she received it “despite” the fact that she is pro-abortion.


A longer interview on BRN Newsradio in the Netherlands reveals additional assertions from Ploumen, in which she implies that the Vatican gave her the award as a personal “prize”, rather than as a pro-forma honor bestowed upon her entire delegation. She tells the interviewer that this was done even though she believes the Vatican was aware of her work for SheDecides, and that she sees it as confirmation of her work. With the help of the Lepanto Institute, the most relevant portion of the interview has been transcribed and translated into English:

NR – And there is another prize, from the pope …

Lilianne Ploumen – Yes, I won another prize. I received a high award from the Pope.

BNR – For what you did for abortions?

Ploumen – Well, it doesn’t say that, but it is in itself interesting that it says it is for service/merits for society.

BNR – Well, that would be applicable to a lot of other people.

PloumenYes, for sure, but the Vatican probably knows that I started “SheDecides” and they gave me this prize – very special.

BNR – What kind of prize is it, exactly?

Ploumen – Commander in the order of Gregorius.

BNR – Congrats.

Ploumen – Thank you.

BNRIt is rather progressive of the Pope.

PloumenYes, very. And I am very happy with it.

BNRDo you see it as confirmation of what you are doing for girls and women, for abortion?

PloumenYes, that, and also, the last couple of years I invested a lot of time in establishing contacts with the Vatican.

BNR – Lobbying?

Ploumen – Yes, Lobbying. Especially since the Vatican, mainly with the previous popes, were very rigid when it comes to women’s rights. And that is not going to change in the short term, but perhaps there are some areas in which we can work together, and that is what I tried. For example, the Church is also against child marriages. For us, it may seem strange, but in a lot of countries, the Church has a strong influence. So, if a bishop can say that it is not a good idea to force a 14-year-old to marry, then that may help. For example, there is a bishop in Uganda who spoke out against homosexuality. Then the Vatican said, ‘Okay, we are not actively promoting homosexuality, but man is created as he is and we have to accept him in that way.’

BNR – And that is how pragmatic you are, too. If the Vatican can help you with something that is not even really what they stand for, then …

Ploumen – Yes, of course. Make no mistake. They have a lot of influence, of course, via the religious community, but they are also part of negotiations within the United Nations. And then it makes a difference if they are on the side of Saudi Arabia or on the side of the Netherlands … and then I’d rather have them on our side.

Dutch abortion activist: Pope Francis honoring me is a ‘confirmation’ of my abortion work

Give the Devil an inch and thousands of miles will be taken.
 
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chevyontheriver

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redleghunter

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It is an embarrassment, for sure. Did he have a clue? Probably not.
Well I'm not so convinced Bergoglio is that daft. He knows the progressive players in the world from his Cardinal days. He is politically savvy. I'm not a CT nut and don't think he gave the award to this woman as a sign he is amenable to abortion. He probably looked at other works she does and said 'ok I have an opportunity for an inroad." Yet, give the devil an inch and you get this:
Dutch abortion activist: Pope Francis honoring me is a ‘confirmation’ of my abortion work
 
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