Pope Francis: better to be an atheist than a hypocritical Catholic

Fish and Bread

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Link:

Pope Francis: better to be an atheist than a hypocritical Catholic

Excerpt:

“There are those who say, ‘I am very Catholic, I always go to mass, I belong to this and that association’,” the head of the 1.2 billion-member Roman Catholic church said, according to a Vatican Radio transcript.

He said some of these people should also say “‘my life is not Christian, I don’t pay my employees proper salaries, I exploit people, I do dirty business, I launder money, [I lead] a double life’.”

“There are many Catholics who are like this and they cause scandal,” he said. “How many times have we all heard people say ‘if that person is a Catholic, it is better to be an atheist’.”

Note the specific examples His Holiness gives in paragraph two of the excerpt. They aren't what some conservatives probably think they are. :)
 

archer75

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I think it's great to hear the Pope saying something like this. And it's not any call for atheism, not at all. As I understand it, it's "you're doing something even WORSE" if this is what you're doing.
 
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Godlovesmetwo

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I see nothing with the source. I think this excerpt from the article should be mentioned: Since his election in 2013, Francis has often told Catholics, both priests and lay people, to practice what their religion preaches.
I know Red, but I'm just wondering if conservatives will "go for the jugular" by dismissing the source again. It is a common tactic used by both sides of the political spectrum.
 
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Godlovesmetwo

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He said some of these people should also say “‘my life is not Christian, I don’t pay my employees proper salaries, I exploit people, I do dirty business, I launder money, [I lead] a double life’.”
Pope Francis is clearly pointing the finger at the exploitative rich employers of the world and standing up for the exploited employee and poor.
We had a recent case in Australia of 7/11 convenience store employees being paid slave wages. Case in point.
 
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Hank77

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It sounds to me that the Pope is challenging Christians to walk the walk of a Christian.
It is rather like Paul saying there were Jews claiming to be Jews but were not because they did not walk in the commandments. Lip service isn't true faith.
 
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archer75

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I don't know that sex out of wedlock is such a crime that it squeezes "stealing from helpless employees and starving their children perhaps to the point of illness or death" out of the discussion.
 
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Martinius

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Pope: Don't put off conversion, give up a double life

Here is the link to the report on the homily, directly from the Vatican. The Pope made additional points and gave other examples to explain his theme. One of them was a struggling company that was not able to pay its employees, who could not feed their families while the owner was taking a vacation, basking on the beach, enjoying every luxury. Another was the following:

“Jesus talks, in the Gospel, about those who commit scandal, without saying the world ‘scandal,’ but it’s understood: But you will arrive in heaven and you will knock at the gate: ‘Here I am, Lord!’ – ‘But don’t you remember? I went to Church, I was close to you, I belong to this association, I did this… Don’t you remember all the offerings I made?’ ‘Yes, I remember. The offerings, I remember them: All dirty. All stolen from the poor. I don’t know you.’ That will be Jesus’ response to these scandalous people who live a double life."

Ouch!
 
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Godlovesmetwo

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‘But don’t you remember? I went to Church, I was close to you, I belong to this association, I did this… Don’t you remember all the offerings I made?’
My version will be like this:
But don't you remember how long I spent on CF ? Bringing people to you? Witnessing for you? It was all for you. And now you wont let me past this narrow gate? What's that you say? Because I'm too fat to get through it? Oh I see. better lose weight then. Sorry. :)
 
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tadoflamb

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I understand what Pope Francis is talking about. As Catholics, we're being watched. People expect us to behave in a certain way. As a public figure at my church and a public figure in my community it's not just incumbent of me not to give to scandal but to avoid even the appearance of scandal.

I think most the people I go to church with are good people. At least none of them have ever inspired me to revert back to my own self-styled version of born again neo-paganism. I believe in my heart that they are just like me, sinners in need of a Savior and we're all part of that one pilgrim church working out our salvation with fear and trembling.

I've been Catholic long enough now to know that no pope, bishop, priest or layman will cause me to think it's better to be an atheist, but there are some elements in the Church presenting themselves as Catholic with which I want nothing to do with. It would be enough to make me revert back to born again neo-paganism if I really thought that what Catholicism is all about.

Fortunately, I live in Catholicville, am immersed in the community and I have to tell the Holy Father (with all due respect) that I don't know who he knows, but from where I sit the situation isn't that glum.
 
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Martinius

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My version will be like this:
But don't you remember how long I spent on CF ? Bringing people to you? Witnessing for you? It was all for you. And now you wont let me past this narrow gate? What's that you say? Because I'm too fat to get through it? Oh I see. better lose weight then. Sorry. :)
It is a spiritual "gate", BCP. Size doesn't matter.
 
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Godlovesmetwo

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At least none of them have ever inspired me to revert back to my own self-styled version of born again neo-paganism.
For some reason that sounds cool, Tad. :)
On a serious note I agree we are role-models for our faith. Pressssure!!!
 
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Martinius

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It sounds to me that the Pope is challenging Christians to walk the walk of a Christian.
It is rather like Paul saying there were Jews claiming to be Jews but were not because they did not walk in the commandments. Lip service isn't true faith.
Yup. The Pope is basically saying that the people he describes may as well be atheists, since they are not living as true Catholic Christians and are certainly not fooling God, only themselves.
 
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Fish and Bread

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That article fails basic reading comprehension. Even within ChurchPop's own article they started listing a number of journalistically renown publications which all agreed on an interpretation of events, and noted that many more did as well. Following that, ChurchPop's writer, without even for a second pausing to re-read the Pope's speech and wonder why everyone else saw a certain thing and why this author, who probably also doesn't ever pause to wonder why he or she is writing for a "publication" called "ChurchPop" while these journalists are writing for real news outlets, saw things a completely different way. Hint: It isn't because of some sort of cabal of liberals in the media, its because you got it wrong. :)

I don't know enough about ChurchPop to know whether its willful rightwing agenda driven ignorance or just ignornance on the author's part, nor do I care. :) It is ignorance, though. Its also arrogance. Obviously all those media types, in the eyes of this writer, don't understand the Catholic definition of scandal or how to interpret what the Pope says. Clearly only "ChurchPop" and Rush Limbaugh can show us the way, the truth, and the religious right. ;)
 
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