Pope Francis and Ramadan

Davidnic

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B16 was ok authorizing similar things through the vatican offices as offical documents: link
or about to be sainted JPII: link

Actually there has been offical acknowledgment of either or both of the start and end of Ramadan since the last year of Paul VI
 
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RomanRite

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You can start with an apology for falsely accusing the pope. There is nothing heretical here.

encourging to practice a false religion is in itself is not necessary, we should be converting not wanting others to continue paganism. The early Church would be furious.
 
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bach90

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I applaud Pope Francis for trying to ease the thousand years of tension between Christians and Muslims.

I am always concerned though when Christian leaders cross lines, particularly when it's not with other Christian churches, it's a sticky situation even if necessitated by modern society. Rome generally does a good job in this area, to its credit, other Christians can learn from its example.
 
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bach90

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BTW, here's the RC definition for "heresy", so we know what we're talking about.

Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same - CCC 2089
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Michie

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BTW, here's the RC definition for "heresy", so we know what we're talking about.

Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same - CCC 2089
That should be posted for all to see in OBOB.
 
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Colin

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As-salamu alaykum .

I have Muslim friends .

At the end of Ramadan , on Eid-al-Fitr , I give them a greetings card and presents for the children in celebration of their Feast .

So I suppose that makes me a heretic to some . :doh:

May God , Allah , sustain Muslims as they keep their yearly fast .

Pope John Paul II kisses the Qur'an .
koran21.jpg
 
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Kurama

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Catechism:

3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

Sawm, Zakat, Salat and Hajj, although not Christian acts, are symbols of fasting, charity, prayer and pilgrimage (greatly respected and practiced by the Church). Thus I'm not surprised why Francis wished our fellow Muslims a happy Ramadan.

I don't want to seem like a Muslim apologist, trust me I would be the last person to defend the teachings of Muhammad. However as Nikita Khrushchev said, ''You do not like communism. We do not like capitalism. There is only one way out: peaceful coexistence.''
 
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Kurama

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Eh, you seem a bit over the top friendly towards Islam over in World Religion, Kurama. Just my observation and opinion, though.

Really? My comments are generally met with quite a lot of disagreement and anger from fellow Muslims (only Christians, atheists and Pagans tend to agree with me). I've tried my best to be friendly towards Muslims (love your neighbor), but I've just been met with Dawah (Islamic conversion attempts) and unfriendliness... Then again, I'm not going to base my opinion on a whole religion just because of my own experiences!

Notwithstanding, I've found that I've spoken a bit too much about a certain prophet (peace be upon him), and due to the fact that all threads are widely accessible to the world, I have removed my profile pic for personal safety.

Maybe my over friendliness is motivated by fear?
 
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Sword of the Lord

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Your over friendliess may be motivated by fear, while my over scrutiny may be motivated by my immense hate for Islam. I've recently discovered that the CC's view of Islam is a stumbling block for me. I hate it, I don't consider it to be heretical Christianity, I don't consider Muslims my brothers and sisters, and I can't stand the fact that JP II kiss the Qu'Ran, whatever the context of it might be.

To me, we shouldn't encourage or show respect to any false religion, and my brothers and sisters are in Christ Jesus -- those that do the will of the Father. The attacks on my country, faith, and true brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus across the globe doesn't help to change my feelings.
 
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Kurama

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Maybe I'm just getting the wrong impression, but on quite a few occasions I've wondered if you were a closet Muslim. Apologies.

Closet Muslim...I find your judgment a little hurtful, especially due to the fact that I am risking my life everyday to remain Catholic in an atheist totalitarian dictatorship. I was born into a deeply Islamophobic family who taught me that Islam corresponds to evil. Thus I've tried to learn about Islam myself to find answers.

I do not believe that my desire for Christians and Muslims to live alongside each other in peace and mutual respect, corresponds to me being a Muslim (I'm just trying to learn from Christ). Sooner or later, Christians and Muslims will have similar populations, we will have to learn from the other religion...you can interpret it as knowing the enemy.

Please take note that nearly all the things I've said about Muslims are linked to our relationship with them. I have never explicitly praised Islam, the Quran and Muhammad; I have tried to talk about Islam in regards to Christianity (though I'll admit that in my ''Let's compliment each other'' thread I praised Muslims, along with most other religious adherents; trying to uphold the tolerance of Christ here).

It would make a lot more sense if you had thought that I was a closet Buddhist, at least that would reflect my threads on the World Religion forum ^_^
 
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Kurama

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Your over friendliess may be motivated by fear, while my over scrutiny may be motivated by my immense hate for Islam. I've recently discovered that the CC's view of Islam is a stumbling block for me. I hate it, I don't consider it to be heretical Christianity, I don't consider Muslims my brothers and sisters, and I can't stand the fact that JP II kiss the Qu'Ran, whatever the context of it might be.

To me, we shouldn't encourage or show respect to any false religion, and my brothers and sisters are in Christ Jesus -- those that do the will of the Father. The attacks on my country, faith, and true brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus across the globe doesn't help to change my feelings.

I understand what you are feeling, my family feels just the same. Please...I don't want to come across as pro-Muslim, I just want to make peace with them. On the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said ''blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.'' That is what I am doing in the World Religion forum, trying to help us be more friendly and loving to each other.

No matter whether or not we might agree with the Church's view of Islam, we have to realize that Jesus is love. He taught us to be tolerant, to love and pray for our enemies. The Church is trying to get back to the roots of Christ...I do not see what's so wrong about it.

Perhaps the rational thing Christians should have done was to, after securing Jerusalem during the Crusades, invade Mecca and destroy the Kaaba (the Muslims destroyed the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem; an eye for an eye). By taking Mecca, we would have more-or-less destroyed the Muslim religion. North Africa would have turned back to Christianity, Persia (Iran) would have stayed Zoroastrian and Central Asia (including Afghanistan) would never have embraced Islam.

The world would have been a more peaceful place...however we never did it. The Church disowned and denounced the Knights' Templar, and the war with Muslims was finished. That choice was already made centuries ago...we decided that we were not going to make war with the Muslims. This still applies today...call it a truce. The Pope believes in mutual respect between Christians and Muslims, as long as none of us trespass against each other.

I'd very much like Christians and Muslims to be like yin and yang. Forced conversions and mixing the faiths together (''Chrislam'' as the fundamental Christians like to put it) is a lost cause, we are too different. We must coexist...or there will be conflict.
 
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