Pope backs same sex unions

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lismore

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That’s silly. Don’t you think mainline churches know what is popular and unpopular. Accepting gays is popular with some people, but unpopular with more. No sane person would expect it to gain members. Is it so hard to believe that mainline Christians think it is the right thing to do, and are willing to pay a price in membership? Not everyone accepts evangelicals misreading of scripture.

Hello hedrick. I have talked with several members of the Scottish Episcopal Church on this issue and I have read an article in the local newspaper by the local Bishop. That is their thinking. So silly or no, that's it. If the SEC thought it was the right thing to do then they would have done it hundreds of years earlier in their history, they're reacting to secular pressure, nothing more, nothing less.
 
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BobRyan

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Pope Francis backs same-sex civil unions

Pope Francis has given his most explicit support to same-sex civil unions in a move that is likely to further enrage his conservative opponents in the Catholic church.

His comments came in an interview in a documentary film, Francesco, which premiered at the Rome film festival on Wednesday.


Where do you think this is heading?

God Bless :)

That is a good question "Where is this leading"
 
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BobRyan

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True, but many feel that his words indicate some degree of endorsement or approval of homosexual unions/acts, if only by implication. Others may disagree. At the very least, it appears that the Pope's words have caused confusion and concern for many Catholics.

It is hard to view it as a condemnation of the LGBT agenda that is moving into his denomination as it is trying to move into all denominations.

https://nypost.com/2019/02/14/80-percent-of-priests-in-the-vatican-are-gay-new-book/

Four in five Vatican priests are gay, book claims
 
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zippy2006

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That’s silly. Don’t you think mainline churches know what is popular and unpopular. Accepting gays is popular with some people, but unpopular with more. No sane person would expect it to gain members. Is it so hard to believe that mainline Christians think it is the right thing to do, and are willing to pay a price in membership? Not everyone accepts evangelicals misreading of scripture.

If accepting gays is more unpopular than popular, then why did you say that it "would be fine with the US and Europe" in your first post? In that case I don't see how mainline SSM churches can be martyrs, at least in the US and Europe.
 
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Redwingfan9

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Pope Francis backs same-sex civil unions

Pope Francis has given his most explicit support to same-sex civil unions in a move that is likely to further enrage his conservative opponents in the Catholic church.

His comments came in an interview in a documentary film, Francesco, which premiered at the Rome film festival on Wednesday.


Where do you think this is heading?

God Bless :)
For a church that has long ago abandoned scripture, the Bishop's recent declaration that sodomy is okay is not a huge surprise. I would expect him to endorse fornication, divorce and abortion within two years. When scripture isn't your guide all manner of wickedness becomes acceptable.
 
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BobRyan

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Is it so hard to believe that mainline Christians think it is the right thing to do, and are willing to pay a price in membership? Not everyone accepts evangelicals misreading of scripture.

Misreading of what scripture(s)?
1 Cor 6?
Romans 1?
Lev 18?
 
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hedrick

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If accepting gays is more unpopular than popular, then why did you say that it "would be fine with the US and Europe" in your first post? In that case I don't see how mainline SSM churches can be martyrs, at least in the US and Europe.
Because Catholics tend to be liberal. Protestants not so much.
 
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BobRyan

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If accepting gays is more unpopular than popular, then why did you say that it "would be fine with the US and Europe" in your first post? In that case I don't see how mainline SSM churches can be martyrs, at least in the US and Europe.

In fact there are entire nations (like Romania) that are being forced by the US and EU to accept LGBT agenda policies withing their own legal system -- or else face being cut off from various forms of support and partnership.
 
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BobRyan

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Because Catholics tend to be liberal. Protestants not so much.

As I understand it - there are at least one or two Catholics still in central and south America, Africa etc that might not be all that liberal-leaning when it comes to LGBT.
 
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zippy2006

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As I understand it - there are at least one or two Catholics still in central and south America, Africa etc that might not be all that liberal-leaning when it comes to LGBT.

True, but Hedrick has admitted as much in the thread. His point about Catholics being receptive to same-sex unions was with respect to the U.S. and Europe.
 
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hedrick

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True, but Hedrick has admitted as much in the thread. His point about Catholics being receptive to same-sex unions was with respect to the U.S. and Europe.
And I recently saw an article saying that it was true in much of Latin America, though not all.
 
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WanderedHome

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Pope Francis backs same-sex civil unions

Pope Francis has given his most explicit support to same-sex civil unions in a move that is likely to further enrage his conservative opponents in the Catholic church.

His comments came in an interview in a documentary film, Francesco, which premiered at the Rome film festival on Wednesday.


Where do you think this is heading?

God Bless :)

I think we all saw that coming. He would have wide open laws tomorrow, about all the liberal agendas, if it wouldn't cause a huge schism in the Catholic Church. He's just playing politics to sneak it in little by little.
 
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Philip_B

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He (Pope Francis) said:
“Homosexual people have a right to be in a family. They are children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it. What we have to create is a civil union law. That way they are legally covered. I stood up for that.”​

I think that there is a level of over-reach going on. Having read a few of his articles more generally, I suggest that Pope Francis in general speaks after due consideration, and he is no intellectual slouch. Whilst I know for some the idea of diminishing to personhood of LGBT is a popular pastime, in truth such actions fail to acknowledge the idea of our shared humanity, and the image and likeness we bear. This is part of the basis for the encyclical Fratelli Tutti (Fratelli tutti (3 October 2020) | Francis), though the substance of that document is not about this issue.

Homophobia is a less endearing stream of some Christianity, and I fear it often appears to deny the truth that Christ died for all. If a group of people were being marginalised in our society and left exposed to unfair treatment, I would hope that the Church would (with Christ) stand up in their defence. If you read the words and not the commentary, I think that is exactly what Pope Francis has done.

Viva Papa!
 
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Gregory Thompson

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So advocate for two men to get married as long as it's not in church? Seems like a recipe for confusion.
Oh probably.

However, in terms of laws Romans 13 sums up any commandment in a brief saying that love does not harm their neighbour.

So giving people protection under the civil laws where there would be abuse otherwise, sounds like it's reducing harm.

I'm not sure, was there a clear division of church and state in your theology?
 
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So, are we sure the bible doesn't talk about this?, and also are we sure we are not being pressurized by society and God knows whom else to accept all this?
If you support gays in their things, and God condnems that sin, you are supporting a harm that is sending people to hell, and also disobeying God calling bad good...
 
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BobRyan

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He said: “Homosexual people have a right to be in a family. They are children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it. What we have to create is a civil union law. That way they are legally covered. I stood up for that.”

I'm happy that we FINALLY have an enlightened Pope!!

Interesting.
 
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BobRyan

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Is it so hard to believe that mainline Christians think it is the right thing to do, and are willing to pay a price in membership? Not everyone accepts evangelicals misreading of scripture.

Misreading of what scripture(s)?
1 Cor 6?
Romans 1?
Lev 18?

So, are we sure the bible doesn't talk about this?, and also are we sure we are not being pressurized by society and God knows whom else to accept all this?
If you support gays in their things, and God condnems that sin, you are supporting a harm that is sending people to hell, and also disobeying God calling bad good...

Ok so now all the cards are on the table.
 
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St_Worm2

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com7fy8

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Before the Rome bashing starts I would be interested in hearing what Francis actually said in context. Just saying.
It looks like he is saying gay couples can be in a "civil" union . . . not in holy matrimony as Roman Catholicism sees holy matrimony. There are gays who would consider this to be compromise > a number of gay activists demand to have marriage which is considered the same as that of heterosexual marriage.

He seems to justify his statement, by saying all gays are children of God and therefore they have a right to be in families.

So, I am thinking about Romans 1:18-32. Verse 27, here, says ones who refused God were "receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."

And with this I think of > Romans 3:16-18 > about how ones not with God have "misery" and "destruction", and they do not know "the way of peace".

Of course, there are heterosexuals who claim the bible while they meet this description of being miserable and in destruction within themselves. Anyone's sinning has built-in "penalty of their error which was due," in my opinion. Plus, there can be consequences much worse than our sins deserve; because sin is not fair.

So, in any case, it is interesting how ones can even promote what is in reality a consequence and penalty of refusing God! And there is no right thing, really, which you can do with a wrong person who stays wrong. Jesus wants us to repent of what is wrong. If our hearts have wrong desires and preferences, God is able to correct our hearts > Hebrews 12:4-14 < so, in case a pope claims that wrong people are children of God, Hebrews 12:4-14 guarantees how our Father corrects His children.

many feel that his words indicate some degree of endorsement or approval of homosexual unions/acts, if only by implication. Others may disagree. At the very least, it appears that the Pope's words have caused confusion and concern for many Catholics.
Donald Trump has been a major competitor for attention, these days. Even if he says things which . . . get criticized . . . he is getting attention so voters know who he is. Likewise, ones can do things and say things to get attention to their religious groups; even if they say wrong things, they are getting publicity.

But does God have our attention????

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

I mean, then, are we attentive to our Father in "the way of peace", so we are submissive to Him and how He cares for us and personally rules us in His own peace?

There is indeed competition to get our attention elsewhere . . . to very deeply wrong people and where they would take our attention and us.

Catholics being receptive to same-sex unions
There are people who are brought up to be culturally Catholic. But, deep inside themselves they don't buy it; ones might deeply realize they are getting nowhere with their Catholic practice, and they know they deeply are not right; so they might decide they have no need to criticize gays, since they themselves are not doing so great.

Our character has a lot to do with what we are able to believe.

So, this is not only an issue of morals and theory; this has to do with our real character which can decide what we are capable of believing and doing.

I would offer how there is no such thing as sexual preference, really. Because there is only one way to reproduce. And sex is what can result in reproduction.

But what happens is people like the pleasure of sexual sensations. Their preference is, really, not for reproducing but for the pleasure which is a treasure for people. They love the pleasure; so they feel intimate and even in love with someone they can use to get their pleasure feelings. However, they are not truly intimate with the person they use; but they are intimate with their own pleasure feelings.

And so they are worshiping the creature more than the Creator, like Romans 1:18-32 says people did.
 
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