Poor Christians are deluded by 'grab it' gospel

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SavedByGrace3

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Yesterday at 12:49 AM Br. Max said this in Post #13

How can you as a follower of Christ claim that God wants you to have TEMPORAL treasures???
....

BTW - no church NEEDS air-conditioning - nor cushioned seats. Its this kind of comfort thinking that is part of the problem. Stop looking for comfort and look to find how you can sacrifice and suffer for the kingdom of God. :)

I agree... I assume you meet out in the woods in the snow and the rain. Why do we need any buildings or churches at all??? Let's do it!!! When you do it. So will I.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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It is a sin to bear false witness against your brother. Please produce evidence of some WOF person saying believers should "intimidate God into giving you a pampered life of luxury"?

If you cannot do this, then please repent immediately.
:

:D Hey Hobart
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Today at 03:30 PM Quaffer said this in Post #22



:D Hey Hobart
Hi Quaffie! Hey Andy!
Pop my head in the door and here we are again... being made out to be false prophets and money grubbers. :(
:wave:

Bless their hearts... We luv'em anyway!!!
:kiss: :hug:

Hobs
 
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ZiSunka

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I'm sad to see that the same old arguments are still going on here at CF. It seems like CF is about arguing about minutia more than bringing Christians together for any reasonable purpose. Instead of focusing on negatives like this over and over, why not sometimes discuss what Christians do right and how to propagate and cultivate those things around the world.

Prosperity is a non-issue. It doesn't matter whether you have it or not, it matters what you do with it when you have it. What are you doing with whatever God has given you??
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Today at 04:14 PM lambslove said this in Post #24

I'm sad to see that the same old arguments are still going on here at CF. It seems like CF is about arguing about minutia more than bringing Christians together for any reasonable purpose. Instead of focusing on negatives like this over and over, why not sometimes discuss what Christians do right and how to propagate and cultivate those things around the world.

Prosperity is a non-issue. It doesn't matter whether you have it or not, it matters what you do with it when you have it. What are you doing with whatever God has given you??

I could not have said it better LL!
When it comes to the larger issues of salvation and righteousness before God, temporal things are (relative) non-issues. They are wonderful blessings from God that are available to all... but whether if you have them or not says nothing about your spirituality or faithfulness or standing with God.

I wish poeple would cease all this name calling ("blab it and grab it"... "name it and claim it" etc etc) and start praising God for His goodness, mercy, love and provision for our righteousness in Him! Praise His name!! If we would begin to seek righteousness and glorify God as He said then these things would take care of themselves. "All these things shall be added unto you..."

Praise His Name!!!!
Hobs
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Yesterday at 02:17 PM Quaffer said this in Post #14


And since you're not supposed to have anything, when someone gives you something do you turn around and give it to someone else?  My goodness, at what point does someone use what is given to them?   Or is the stuff just in perpetual motion, never stopping and being used by anyone. 


LOL
I think the entire point in our presenting this kind of reason is not to be funny or make fun of someone, rather it is to simply show that this ("the poverty gospel")is not what Jesus was talking about. He was in the middle of a teaching that was showing how impossible it was to be saved by doing such things. He was talking to a young man who had done all sorts of "things" in an effort to attain perfection.. This young man had to be brought to the place where he would see that doing "things" would never perfect you and bring you to God.
If you are going to follow this young man and attempt to become acceptable to God by doing "things", then be sure to do them all! If this is the way you want to attain salvation, then be sure to sell everything and walk the earth like Jesus did. He gave up everything. Is this what you are going to do? If so, then realize that you are also going to have to be tortured and die on a cross. That is what Jesus did. Needless to say, you will fail. You will never attain righteousness in the way this young man was attempting. He failed, and Jesus intended for him to see that he failed. He had to be brought to the place where he was hopeless and broken. Then he would see that Jesus is the way. Not works. Not poverty. Not sickness or death. Jesus did it all for us and calls us to believe in His finished work.
 
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Caedmon

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This song really speaks to me about economic exploitation of the sincere faithful.

"S.M.C." -- Project86

Big business ain’t easy
I’m sure you’d agree
Especially when the product is eternity-
To stay one step ahead we must achieve
And turn this holy temple
Into a factory
Is there anywhere you can run
To hide from these thieves? -
Cause eternity’s on sale today for a fee

Faith is buying me away
Buying me a way
To convert the masses into little servants
Faith is buying me away
Buying me a way
Buying me into your home (soul)

Our sanctuary of this high-rise
Our steeples our billboards
Our slogans our converts
Oh don’t forget to buy this T-shirt
As you leave
And open up the offering box
And give until it hurts
Show me an open heart and we’ll steal it away
Cause eternity’s on up for sale for a small fee today
You Know

This altar is a stage
Our sponsor must be paid
And maybe even make the front page
 
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Andrew

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Hey Hobart how have you been!?

You might be pleased to note that there has been one positive change in our favour since you left:

Forum rule:
Not allowed: "Word of Faith preachers are false prophets"
Allowed: "The Word of Faith movement have gone too far in certain instances" - as long as scripture and evidence is posted to argue this.

:)
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Today at 08:25 PM Andrew said this in Post #30

Hey Hobart how have you been!?

You might be pleased to note that there has been one positive change in our favour since you left:

Forum rule:
quote:
Not allowed: "Word of Faith preachers are false prophets"
Allowed: "The Word of Faith movement have gone too far in certain instances" - as long as scripture and evidence is posted to argue this.



:)

Hello Andy!
Wow.... that sounds great! I have no problem with that.
The Word wins when that rule is observed.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Today at 06:13 PM sklippstein said this in Post #32

Romans 8:35-37 NLT

God does not promise material riches, but he does promise to everyone the eternal reward of salvation through Christ.


God supplies our NEEDS, not our wants.


Thanks for your opinion Sklipp....
any scriptures to prove this??
 
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Blackhawk

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Eternal life is knowing God.  God brings riches and god brings poverty,  God brings health and God brings sickness and,  God brings good times and God brings bad times.  God does all these things to bring his elect closer to Him which is the only real blessing.  Everything else is dung in comparison. (Phil. 3:7-14)
 
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Andrew

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God supplies our NEEDS, not our wants.

so not true at all!

Ps 37:4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

Proverbs 10:24
What the wicked dreads will overtake him; what the righteous desire will be granted.

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

Lu 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

did Abraham need so many cattle, silver, gold and servants? Did the Israelites need all that gold and silver when they came out of Eqypt?

God brings riches and god brings poverty,Ê God brings health and God brings sickness and,Ê God brings good times and God brings bad times.

that's really lumping the devil's works and God's works together!

John 10:10
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.


I didnt know God came to kill, steal and destroy too.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Yesterday at 09:10 PM Blackhawk said this in Post #34

Eternal life is knowing God.  God brings riches and god brings poverty,  God brings health and God brings sickness and,  God brings good times and God brings bad times.  God does all these things to bring his elect closer to Him which is the only real blessing.  Everything else is dung in comparison. (Phil. 3:7-14)

Thanks for your comments BH, I looked again at Phil 3 and the passage is saying nothing about being rich, poor, sick, or well. Paul is talking about all the religious things that would cause him to gain and be well accepted by the religioius people (in this case, the Jews) of his day:

(Phi 3:3) For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
(Phi 3:4) Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
(Phi 3:5) Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, [of] the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
(Phi 3:6) Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
(Phi 3:7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
(Phi 3:8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ,

Paul turned his back on his jewish heritage and zeal. These are the things he counted as dung.... not the blessings of healing, health, and prosperity.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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Romans 8:35-37 NLT

God does not promise material riches, but he does promise to everyone the eternal reward of salvation through Christ.


God supplies our NEEDS, not our wants.

 

Today at 08:38 AM sklippstein said this in Post #37




Sure! Matthew 6:25-34. I tried to look it up and copy and paste on the bible search in here, but it wouldn't come up.


Matthew 6:25-34&nbsp;(NKJ)&nbsp;"Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing?<SUP> </SUP>Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?<SUP> </SUP>Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature? So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin;<SUP> </SUP>and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.<SUP> </SUP>Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? "Therefore do not worry, saying, "What shall we eat?' or "What shall we drink?' or "What shall we wear?'<SUP> </SUP>For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.<SUP> </SUP>But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.<SUP> </SUP>Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

Matthew 6:25-34 (Amplified) Therefore I tell you, stop being&nbsp;perpetually uneasy (anxious and worried) about your life, what you shall eat or what you shall drink; or about your body, what you shall put on. Is not life greater [in quality] than food, and the body [far above and more excellent] than clothing?
Look at the birds of the air; they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father keeps feeding them. Are you not worth much more than they?&nbsp; And who of you by worrying and being anxious can add one unit of measure (cubit) to his stature or to the&nbsp;span of his life?&nbsp; And why should you be anxious about clothes? Consider the lilies of the field and&nbsp;learn thoroughly how they grow; they neither toil nor spin.&nbsp; Yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his&nbsp;magnificence (excellence, dignity, and grace) was not arrayed like one of these. [I Kings 10:4-7.] But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and green and tomorrow is tossed into the furnace, will He not much more surely clothe you, O you of little faith?&nbsp; Therefore do not worry and be anxious, saying, What are we going to have to eat? or, What are we going to have to drink? or, What are we going to have to wear?&nbsp; For the Gentiles (heathen) wish for and crave and diligently seek all these things, and your heavenly Father knows well that you need them all.&nbsp; But seek (aim at and strive after) first of all His kingdom and His righteousness (His way of doing and being right), and then all these things&nbsp;taken together will be given you besides.&nbsp; So do not worry or be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will have worries and anxieties of its own. Sufficient for each day is its own trouble.


This scripture is telling us we don't need to worry about these things because if God takes care of the lilies, and arrayes them even more splendly than He did Solomon, how much He will take care of us.&nbsp;

Sounds like a promise of provision of some material riches to me! :)
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Today at 10:25 AM HWS Jim said this in Post #39

There are a lot of 'propersity preachers' out there, they have been around for a long time.&nbsp; Their message is always the same "Give me your money and you will become rich." They shall receive their reward.
The shame is that they have so many followers. :cry: :cry:

Thanks for your comments Jim.
I read after a couple of "prosperity preachers" and I have never heard them say this. I have given them very little money... other than buying a few tapes and books. I am relatively prosperous and do not credit that prosperity in any way to giving anyone money. Our welfare and health is the result of our being delivered from the curse of the law(Gal 3:13), and because all of the promises of God have been made yes and amen because of what Jesus did for us(2 Cor 1:20) . All that we have and all our standing before God is accessed by the name of Jesus and the gospel. All we do is believe what He said.

Dry your tears brother and rejoice in the Lord. You want Him to take pleasure in you do you not?

"....the Lord takes pleasure in the prosperity of His servants..."
Psa 35:27
 
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