Poll: Was Adam a Righteous Man?

[FireDragon76]

I'm curious to see the responses.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I'm curious to see the responses.

I voted no. I had to go with that whole "Not one is righteous, no not one" thing! So, I assume this applies to everyone except Jesus? (But feel free to elaborate or correct me if I kind of missed the mark.)

 

[BobRyan]

(Only one sin?) and then the Gospel -- and he is the father of both Abel and Seth ... both of whom are righteous. It could be argued that he raised them to be that way.. to accept the Gospel. Recall that both Cain and Abel are offering sacrifices to God - and Adam probably taught them to worship God.

Here is what we find said of some of his descendants

Genesis 5
21 Enoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Methuselah. 22 After he begot Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years, and had sons and daughters. 23 So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24 And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.

Hebrews 11
5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Genesis 6
9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God. 10 And Noah begot three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Genesis 7
Then the Lord said to Noah, “Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation.

 

[BobRyan]

I of course "have a few other reasons" for being certain in the case of Adam - since I am Seventh-day Adventist.

 

[FireDragon76]

I voted no. I had to go with that whole "Not one is righteous, no not one" thing! So, I assume this applies to everyone except Jesus? (But feel free to elaborate or correct me if I kind of missed the mark.)

Jesus declares at least some people righteous, though (23:35). So we have an apparent contradiction.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Jesus declares at least some people righteous, though (23:35). So we have an apparent contradiction.

I love contradictions! I'll just sit here and wait for someone to figure it out--in the meantime, I'll count the soiled rags sitting in my laundry room.

 

[ewq1938]

I voted no because of this:

He willingly chose to sin which caused the fall of humanity itself which affects every single human being ever born or will be born, causing the Earth to be cursed, and failed to protect his wife from a tempter, was the first to die a spiritual death which unless forgiven will send him to the lake of fire, and was cast out of paradise and cursed for the rest of his life.

He reminds me of Lucifer and his fall.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

was david a righteous man?

I voted yes since His righteousness was in Christ like everyone who has been redeemed by God even though he was punished for his sin(like david).

 

[ewq1938]

was david a righteous man?

I voted yes since His righteousness was in Christ like everyone who has been redeemed by God even though he was punished for his sin(like david).

What scripture says or implies Adam was redeemed? Last I read, he died a spiritual death and I never saw him repenting or being saved...

 

[PloverWing]

I'm assuming you're referring to his time in the Garden, before the Fall. At that time, I'd say he was an innocent man. "Righteous" suggests to me that a person fully understands what good and evil mean, and that the person chooses to do good. My sense of the pre-Fall state is that it was a time before the full knowledge of good and evil, hence more a time of innocence, like a child who does not yet understand what adults understand about good and evil.

 

[FireDragon76]

I love contradictions! I'll just sit here and wait for someone to figure it out--in the meantime, I'll count the soiled rags sitting in my laundry room.

I think that's a good example of how the Bible doesn't always present easy answers. Jesus says no one is good but God, then he says some people are righteous. Obviously something is at odds about our notion of righteousness if both can be true.

I ran into a similar problem at church today. I'm becoming a resident Bible/theology answer-man to offload some questions from the pastor and to keep me busy (perhaps?), and somebody asked me how the Lord's Prayer could say "Lead us not into temptation..", when the Bible also says that God tempts no one. It is an interesting question but I think honestly she just needs to read Luther's smaller catechism, it has a decent answer already (basically, from a Lutheran POV the Lord's Prayer is about answering who God is for us).

But anyways... I'm not casting my own vote on this particular poll until later.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

What scripture says or implies Adam was redeemed? Last I read, he died a spiritual death and I never saw him repenting or being saved...

the 'spiritual death' was adam(and all mankind descending from him) being cursed in their nature. the phrase doesn't denote a loss of salvation but rather his failure at being the perfect man that Jesus would come to be.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I think that's a good example of how the Bible doesn't always present easy answers. Jesus says no one is good but God, then he says some people are righteous. Obviously something is at odds about our notion of righteousness if both can be true.

I ran into a similar problem at church today. I'm becoming a resident Bible/theology answer-man to offload some questions from the pastor and to keep me busy (perhaps?), and somebody asked me how the Lord's Prayer could say "Lead us not into temptation..", when the Bible also says that God tempts no one. It is an interesting question but I think honestly she just needs to read Luther's smaller catechism, it has a decent answer already (basically, from a Lutheran POV the Lord's Prayer is about answering who God is for us).

But anyways... I'm not casting my own vote on this particular poll until later.

I agree. The Bible does present some things that are definitely beyond our reach, or at least our immediate reach, to comprehend. That's ok with me!

It'll be interesting to see how others respond to this brain-teaser.

 

[ewq1938]

the phrase doesn't denote a loss of salvation

Of course it does.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

The tree was not able to be reached by Adam.

So I ask what scripture suggests Adam somehow was saved? If there are none we have to consider he may be a lost soul like Judas.

 

[Winken]

I'm curious to see the responses.

Adam-Eve were Spiritually blessed by God. They were perfect, living in a perfect environment. Sin was unknown. They were, therefore, Righteous before God until the fall.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Of course it does.

that passage you quoted doesn't refer to spiritual death but it is God not allowing adam to eat from the tree of life as he did from the tree of knowledge so as to live forever in a fallen state. adam's sin meant that he fell from his state of perfection before God and his state of grace, that is all. adam called upon the name of the LORD along with everyone else(genesis 4:26).

 

[Grandpa2390]

Jesus declares at least some people righteous, though (23:35). So we have an apparent contradiction.

(Only one sin?) and then the Gospel -- and he is the father of both Abel and Seth ... both of whom are righteous. It could be argued that he raised them to be that way.. to accept the Gospel. Recall that both Cain and Abel are offering sacrifices to God - and Adam probably taught them to worship God.

yeah I don't know. That whole "getting humanity kicked out of the Garden of Eden", that can't look good.

And Cain's offering was unacceptable...

 

[Tigger45]

I would say yes initially because he was created in the image of God up to the point he
Conceived sin in his heart and then carried out his
Disobedience.

 

[Grandpa2390]

I would say yes initially because he was created in the image of God up to the point he
Conceived sin in his heart and then carried out his
Disobedience.

Yeah that's how I feel. We might be able to get into a Philosophical debate about whether it is possible to be righteous if there is no evil... but he was allowed in the Garden... so God must have thought so

 

[Grandpa2390]

I agree. The Bible does present some things that are definitely beyond our reach, or at least our immediate reach, to comprehend. That's ok with me!

It'll be interesting to see how others respond to this brain-teaser.

Deuteronomy 29:29