[POLL] Should Christians Rest and Keep Holy the Sabbath Day?

[BobRyan]

Bob S said: ↑
Instead of relying on the SDA church for the historical facts on when Sunday became the day of coming together, explore other history. Of course the SDAs are going to slant things their way leaving out historical facts.

It's not just the SDA. This came up during the Protestant reformation.

It did? Where? I would like to read about their discovery.
.

here is one source doing that.... and not SDA -

=================================
The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

 

[bugkiller]

here is one source doing that.... and not SDA -

=================================
The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

Still appealing to religion. What happened to the Scripture? Isn't it good enough?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I read you post and I also read your formal debate with bugkiller. I love details too!

Since Bob will not leave this alone I guess I will have to start using his c&p tactics.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Me too! I read them and love to repeat those same irrefutable arguments here -- all day long if people wish. It never gets old that way people can see for themselves - the points raised ...

As was demonstrated - irrefutably - in this post on this same thread.
Yesterday at 12:33 AM #578

I would gladly post it "again" for anyone who says they don't remember the points as stated or want to see it on a later post -- or would like to have a shot at refuting it.

Then why are you pretending Moody keeps the 7th day sabbath?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Very true - but there are one or two ex-SDAs on this board that argue as if every point.. every topic has to do with SDA originated teaching.

You are so classic it can not be missed.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Unsupported opinion.

Most likely it is unsupportable.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

ad hominem straw man where you are merely quoting "you" again?

How surprising.

here is what Moody actually said "in real life" and also what I actually said about Moody's statement "in real life".

=================================



Even D.L. Moody agrees that the Sabbath was binding on all mankind - starting in Eden.

========================================
D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - but notice how this sermon on the TEN Commandments also fits the summary of 7 points listed here on page 1??

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS text by D. L. Moody

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY
The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17
.
The Fourth Commandment


Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes;

------------------------------------------

This Sabbath Commandment section of Moody's Ten Commandment sermon goes quot]on with more detail. Here is a segment of that same section -- the ending concluding segment - that might help shed even more light on Moody's Intent - #229 post is on this


Even D.L. Moody agrees that the Sabbath was binding on all mankind - starting in Eden.




Read the actual post.


Even D.L. Moody agrees that the Sabbath was binding on all mankind - starting in Eden.

This detail is irrefutable



but did not prove that my claim is in error when I said - "Even D.L. Moody agrees that the Sabbath was binding on all mankind - starting in Eden." -- as we all know.

I love reminding people of the "details".

======================================

D.L. Moody in that same sermon on the TEN Commandments when it comes to the day of worship "There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath. Saturday is my day of rest, because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need."

I have Moody in my list of "pro-Sunday-Sabbath" quotes because no matter that he kept the actual Bible Sabbath Saturday - I think he thought that keeping Sunday was just the same or better.

The following is from the same site you get your quote above from.

One should read Weighed and Wanting by D L Moody to see what he is calling the sabbath starting at page 18. It can be found here - Weighed and Wanting by Dwight L. Moody - Free eBook

The material already cited is from The Ten Commandments by DL Moody on the Fundamental Baptist Institute site. Please read the whole section. We find this in the section for the 4th commandment -

A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven. There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath. Saturday is my day of rest, because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need.

D L Moody is not presenting Saturday as the sabbath for the Christian. He clearly calls Sunday the sabbath. He does go on and try and apply at least some sabbath regulations to Sunday as principles to live by. The point is D L Moody is not referring to the 7th day sabbath.

My c&p is found in the formal debate is still found in the archive of formal debates here: Sabbath for Christians; Obligation or Not?

The full debate is located beginning with the into here: Sabbath for Christians; Obligation or Not?

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

"BobRyan, post: ]
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS text by D. L. Moody

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY
The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17
.
The Fourth Commandment


Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

...
I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. [/quote]

I have Moody in my list of "pro-Sunday-Sabbath" quotes because no matter that he kept the actual Bible Sabbath Saturday - But Moody never went to the nonsensical level of claiming that the Sabbath as HE describes that began with Adam and Eve in Eden - was Sunday.

I think almost everyone on this board knows that much.

 

[BobRyan]

D.L. Moody in that same sermon on the TEN Commandments when it comes to the day of worship "There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath. Saturday is my day of rest, because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need."

I have Moody in my list of "pro-Sunday-Sabbath" quotes because no matter that he kept the actual Bible Sabbath Saturday - I think he thought that keeping Sunday was just the same or better.

and then we have this ...

The material already cited is from The Ten Commandments by DL Moody on the Fundamental Baptist Institute site. Please read the whole section. We find this in the section for the 4th commandment -

A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven. There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath. Saturday is my day of rest, because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need.

Admittedly my "highlight" is red and yours is blue

 

[CDF47]

Shabbat Shalom!

 

[listed]

and then we have this ...



Admittedly my "highlight" is red and yours is blue

Is buggy's quote false?

 

[BobRyan]

Soooo many "yes votes" on this board... praise the Lord!!

 

[Dkh587]

Shabbat Shalom!

Shabbat shalom

 

[Dkh587]

Soooo many "yes votes" on this board... praise the Lord!!

It's great to see that not everybody rejects the Sabbath of God.

 

[CDF47]

Soooo many "yes votes" on this board... praise the Lord!!

Yes, more than I thought.

 

[CDF47]

It's great to see that not everybody rejects the Sabbath of God.

It really is great to see.

 

[BobRyan]

It's great to see that not everybody rejects the Sabbath of God.

Amen!

 

[1stcenturylady]

Old Covenant Sign - Sabbath Ex. 31:13
New Covenant Sign - Cup of the New Covenant 1 Cor. 11:25

Jesus said "IT IS FINISHED!" What is the "IT"? It is the Old Covenant. The New Covenant was administered on the Day of Pentecost, on the anniversary of the Ten Commandments being given to Israel a couple thousand years before. Out goes the old, in comes the New.

The Old was represented by Abraham's son, Ishmael. Flesh
The New is represented by Abraham's son, Isaac. Promise.

The bottom line about the Sabbath is, is it a sin to keep the 7th day Sabbath - No.
Is it a sin to keep the true meaning of the Sabbath every day - No.

Do as your heart tells you to do. As for me and my house, I will follow Jesus. Just remember, if the Sabbath is more important to you than obeying Jesus and His New Covenant commandments, then it has become an idol.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Old Covenant Sign - Sabbath Ex. 31:13 New Covenant Sign - Cup of the New Covenant 1 Cor. 11:25

Exodus 31:13 and Ezekiel 20:12 says that God's Sabbaths are a sign between God and His people that His people might know that it is God that makes his people Holy and sets them apart from all other people. It does not say that it is a sign of the Old Covenant.

1 Corinthians 11:25 does not say the Lords Supper is a sign of anything. It only states that it is a part of the New Covenant. This is because it is the end of the ceremonial laws of Moses that provided forgiveness of sin (e.g. animal sacrifices for sin offerings that were shadows pointing to Jesus of the Old Covenant; Col 2:14).

Jesus said "IT IS FINISHED!" What is the "IT"? It is the Old Covenant. The New Covenant was administered on the Day of Pentecost, on the anniversary of the Ten Commandments being given to Israel a couple thousand years before. Out goes the old, in comes the New. The Old was represented by Abraham's son, Ishmael. Flesh The New is represented by Abraham's son, Isaac. Promise.

What is the New Covenant? What in the Old Covenant was finished? Do you know the difference between God's Law which is forever and the ceremonial laws of Moses that where shadows of things to come? (Ecclesiastes 3:14; Colossians 2:17; Leviticus 1:3-12; 14-17; 22-23; Numbers chapters 6-8; 15; 15:28-29; Deuteronomy 12; 33; Exodus 25:8; John 1:29; 36; Revelations 5:6; Colossians 2:14;17; Hebrews 8:1-5; 6-13; Hebrews 10:1-19; Hebrews chapters 8; 9; 10; John 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:6-7; Romans 2:28-29; Hebrews 8:10-12 ). How can the 10 commandments be finished when they are forever?

The bottom line about the Sabbath is, is it a sin to keep the 7th day Sabbath - No. Is it a sin to keep the true meaning of the Sabbath every day - No.

It is indeed important to worship God everyday. However, is it a sin to break God's Sabbath which is the 7th Day of the week when God makes this day a Holy day and commands his people not to work on this day because he has made it a Holy day for His people to rest on and has set aside this day for a day of worship? (James 2:8-12)

Do as your heart tells you to do. As for me and my house, I will follow Jesus. Just remember, if the Sabbath is more important to you than obeying Jesus and His New Covenant commandments, then it has become an idol.

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Isaiah 55:8-9
8, For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9, For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Jeremiah 16:12

And ye have done worse than your fathers; for, behold, ye walk every one after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not hearken unto me:

Jeremiah 11:8
Yet they obeyed not, nor inclined their ear, but walked every one in the imagination of their evil heart: therefore I will bring upon them all the words of this covenant, which I commanded them to do; but they did them not.

If we knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God breaking God's commandments we are not following God but making Idols of man in place of God's Word (Matthew 15:3-9; James 2:8-12). The first lie in the Garden of Eden was that if you disobey God you will not surely die.


In Christ Always!

 

[listed]

I missed the thread this came from by 30 seconds.

Israel H3478 meaning ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl; yis-raw-ale'; From H8280 and H410; he will rule as God ; Jisrael, a symbolical name of Jacob; also (typically) of his posterity: - Israel.

All names are symbolic, thus you have nothing to build an argument on. The verses I quoted for your convenience said nothing about those who weren't God's people becoming Israel. Further more that would change the promise as given to Abraham from nations to nation being blessed. Acts 15 specifically says the Christian isn't required to follow the law and be circumcised (joint the covenant given to Israel alone).

To say those that believe God’s Word and follow it is God’s definition of Israel is not my concept it is God’s Word which is supported by around 70 scriptures that you have chosen to disregard. This is despite God’s Word also saying that the New Covenant is to Israel (Hebrews 8:10-12) which is defined in the Word already provided as the believers and followers of God’s Word.

No sir you've presented your concept as God's. I've not disregarded 70 plus scriptures as you claim. I've presented Scripture defending the new covenant which you refuse to accept. An excellent 1 is Luke 16:16 which clearly says the old covenant is history and all do and observe something different. You can say I twist that passage all you want. You're invited to show how by discussion of it. You're invited to show jots and titles of the law haven't changed, remembering of course Hebrews 7:12 that you must say is a lie to protect your idea of Matthew 5:17-18.

For it is written…

Let God be true and every man a liar that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged.

Amen to that.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, and to thy seed, which is Christ

Notice it doesn't say Israel.

Now who is Abraham’s seed?

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus and if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Notice it doesn't say Israel's seed.

For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

This is being addressed to Jews only. It's not indicating gentiles become Jews (Israeli).

God’s Word defines God’s people as Israel who are the believers and followers of God’s Word. There is no need to go through the (70+) scriptures again.

Yes it does. That however doesn't mean Hosea and Romans say the people who weren't God's people now become Israel. Romans doesn't say the Christian is graft into Israel. It does say the Jew must be graft into the Root.