Poll Finds That 42% Of Young Americans Would Elect A Socialist President

[rjs330]

The "horrors of socialism" LOL

What's actually horrifying is the vast number of people in the U.S. without adequate or even any health care.

What's actually horrifying is just how many people are one medical emergency away from bankruptcy and losing everything they worked for throughout the decades of their lives.

What is horrifying are all the homeless people, families, veterans, and disabled who cannot get the care they need because they are too hungry, too cold, too sleep deprived, and too sick.

What is horrifying is immigrant children and families kept in cages, stacked practically on top of each other, and starved and refused medical treatment even as sickness spreads.

What is horrifying is our culture of dog-eat-dog, every person for themselves, since anything at all involving community and help for one's neighbors is "socialism".

And the list goes on.

What's horrifying is your extreme exaggeration of the issues.

 

[rjs330]

IOW you don't care if people are homeless, starving, and dying of easily preventable diseases because no money is provided to them and they can't get jobs. You want disabled people to suffer endlessly and die early. You want the exact opposite of what Jesus wanted when he lived on Earth.

Do you seriously think there are no Americans with these problems? That there are no people in America who need health insurance, shelter, food, water, etc. and are unable to get those things?

And this is exactly why the left can't be taken seriously.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Yes, there is an excuse for the position it is in. It is an economy based on oil. That is why it was rich at one point, and mismanagement caused the problem.

No, there is not. Venezuela' socialist government is solely responsible for the country's decline. They nationalized the oil industry in the 1970's and when production declined by 1/2 they enticed international oil companies back to invest and then expropriated those investments in the 1990's which has resulted in another decline in production having removed the expertise needed to maintain the sophisticated exploration and production equipment needed. They have heavily subsidized food, fuel and medical care to name a few in a effort to keep the population under control while at the time the price of oil and their production dramatically turned down. And now they have brought their country to the point where medical care and food are becoming increasingly scarce. Many people have illegally crossed over into Columbia in search of these very things....all because a socialist government thought they could run an economy better than an open market. A case study in refuting socialism.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Irrelevant. The candidates proposing to turn the U.S. into anything like Venezuela are....absolutely none of them.

Hugo Chavez was not proposing to do that to Venezuela but his socialist government did so anyways....just say'n.......

 

[FreeinChrist]

No, there is not. Venezuela' socialist government is solely responsible for the country's decline. They nationalized the oil industry in the 1970's and when production declined by 1/2 they enticed international oil companies back to invest and then expropriated those investments in the 1990's which has resulted in another decline in production having removed the expertise needed to maintain the sophisticated exploration and production equipment needed. They have heavily subsidized food, fuel and medical care to name a few in a effort to keep the population under control while at the time the price of oil and their production dramatically turned down. And now they have brought their country to the point where medical care and food are becoming increasingly scarce. Many people have illegally crossed over into Columbia in search of these very things....all because a socialist government thought they could run an economy better than an open market. A case study in refuting socialism.

They nationalized the oil in 1973 but did not have a Socialist party in power. The Socialist party that finally brought Chavez to office started in 1998.
Correction here: The party that Chavez finally led started in 2007 but he came into office in 1998 supported by a number of smaller parties. It is complicated. But the government was not socialist prior to that.

They provided medical care and the food programs to care for a population that had been poor. And Venezuela enjoyed much wealth before Chavez. It was the plastic surgery capital of the world. It wasn't to "keep the population under control" as you present it.

Chavez messed it up by expropriating the assets of ExxonMobil and ConoccoPhillips. They lost the resulting lawsuits. Chavez chased away the expertise that had been brought in during the earlier decades and had his people in charge, who messed things up. Again, read:
Charting The Decline Of Venezuela's Oil Industry

The Democratic socialists are not trying to create Venezuela in the US like the right wants folks to believe. The Nordic model is closer to what they want. For now, they simply want better medical care and to support the safety nets.

Leave it to Trump and the Republicans, food stamps will go away:
Trump's proposed SNAP changes would mean millions lose food stamp access

While the 1% dance in joy with their high profits, the Trump administration punishes the poor.

 

[mark46]

Please get back to us when one of the candidates proposes nationalization of the means of production.

When the candidates are proposing Socialism, then it is fair to call it socialism.
.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Hugo Chavez was not proposing to do that to Venezuela but his socialist government did so anyways....just say'n.......

You need to back that statement up.

Chavez strongly proposed the changes in Venezuela:
2007 Venezuelan constitutional referendum - Wikipedia

On 15 August 2007, Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez proposed an amendment to 33 articles of Venezuela's 350-article Constitution. A constitutional provision allows the president, the National Assembly of Venezuela or a constituent assembly to ask for changes; reform should be approved by a national referendum.[5][6] The 1999 constitution was promoted by Chávez and adopted by popular referendum. The proposed constitutional reforms were needed, according to Chávez, to complete the transition to a socialist republic[7] and implement his socialist agenda; detractors said he was using the reforms to become a dictator.[2] The proposal was hailed by government supporters as "the start of a new era towards socialism", but Podemos, a pro-government party, expressed disagreement and claimed Chávez was seeking lifelong power.[5]......


​

The major problems in the reform include:

• abolish presidential term limits, allowing for indefinite re-election of the president (not allowed for any other political post)
• end the autonomy of the central bank, giving control to the president, and place the president in charge of administering the country's international reserves,
  
• prohibit large land estates, while "allowing the state to provisionally occupy property slated for expropriation before a court has ruled",[13]
• reorganize the country's administrative districts and allow the president to control elected state governors and mayors by an unelected "popular power" dependent on the presidency,[1
• allow the president to declare an unlimited state of emergency,

Chavez was all behind it. He lost regarding that referendum, but he had already changed the constitution in 2000 to abolish term limits.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

They nationalized the oil in 1973 but did not have a Socialist party in power. The Socialist party that finally brought Chavez to office started in 1998.

They provided medical care and the food programs to care for a population that had been poor. And Venezuela enjoyed much wealth before Chavez. It was the plastic surgery capital of the world. It wasn't to "keep the population under control" as you present it.

Chavez messed it up by expropriating the assets of ExxonMobil and ConoccoPhillips. They lost the resulting lawsuits. Chavez chased away the expertise that had been brought in during the earlier decades and had his people in charge, who messed things up. Again, read:
Charting The Decline Of Venezuela's Oil Industry

The Democratic socialists are not trying to create Venezuela in the US like the right wants folks to believe. The Nordic model is closer to what they want. For now, they simply want better medical care and to support the safety nets.

Leave it to Trump and the Republicans, food stamps will go away:
Trump's proposed SNAP changes would mean millions lose food stamp access

While the 1% dance in joy with their high profits, the Trump administration punishes the poor.

Sounds a lot like Trump with hiring Rick Perry to a department he didn’t know what it did, hiring Ben Carson to a department he had no experience in, hiring Dolores Umbridge to the Secretary of Education , and chasing off career government employees and diplomats.

 

[whatbogsends]

I'd be more concerned with people who vote for policies that remove environmental regulations and support trickle down economics.

 

[variant]

Too many people believing socialism will give them something for nothing.....

More like defining socialism as anything slightly to the left of Kaiser Wilhelm.

 

[variant]

I believe it primarily started with the rise of the Moral Majority/Religious Right/Fundamantalist-Evangelical factions becoming political and usurping the Republican party for their own interests.

Why would religious fundamentalists be opposed to any of that though?

 

[civilwarbuff]

They nationalized the oil in 1973 but did not have a Socialist party in power.

What do you think socialists do?....they nationalize (government ownership) industry.

Leave it to Trump and the Republicans, food stamps will go away:
Trump's proposed SNAP changes would mean millions lose food stamp access

With record high employment finding jobs is not the problem it was under Obama therefore it would logically follow a reduction in food stamps would occur.

While the 1% dance in joy with their high profits, the Trump administration punishes the poor.

And if you have any investments no doubt you are also dancing in the streets.....Those profits get shared with ordinary people who are invested in their companies.

 

[civilwarbuff]

You need to back that statement up.

Chavez strongly proposed the changes in Venezuela:
2007 Venezuelan constitutional referendum - Wikipedia

On 15 August 2007, Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez proposed an amendment to 33 articles of Venezuela's 350-article Constitution. A constitutional provision allows the president, the National Assembly of Venezuela or a constituent assembly to ask for changes; reform should be approved by a national referendum.[5][6] The 1999 constitution was promoted by Chávez and adopted by popular referendum. The proposed constitutional reforms were needed, according to Chávez, to complete the transition to a socialist republic[7] and implement his socialist agenda; detractors said he was using the reforms to become a dictator.[2] The proposal was hailed by government supporters as "the start of a new era towards socialism", but Podemos, a pro-government party, expressed disagreement and claimed Chávez was seeking lifelong power.[5]......


​

The major problems in the reform include:

• abolish presidential term limits, allowing for indefinite re-election of the president (not allowed for any other political post)
• end the autonomy of the central bank, giving control to the president, and place the president in charge of administering the country's international reserves,
  
• prohibit large land estates, while "allowing the state to provisionally occupy property slated for expropriation before a court has ruled",[13]
• reorganize the country's administrative districts and allow the president to control elected state governors and mayors by an unelected "popular power" dependent on the presidency,[1
• allow the president to declare an unlimited state of emergency,

Chavez was all behind it. He lost regarding that referendum, but he had already changed the constitution in 2000 to abolish term limits.

My response here:

Hugo Chavez was not proposing to do that to Venezuela but his socialist government did so anyways....just say'n.......

was in responce to this:

bekkilyn said: ↑
Irrelevant. The candidates proposing to turn the U.S. into anything like Venezuela are....absolutely none of them.

And as I pointed out Chavez did not start out to wreck the Venezuelan economy except that his embrace of socialism did just that......

 

[Speedwell]

And we should fear the Democrats who are trying to crush the Republican party and demonize them just like cat did above.

Naw, we'd be perfectly happy with a Republican party the way it was before the Southern Strategy.

 

[JackRT]

Naw, we'd be perfectly happy with a Republican party the way it was before the Southern Strategy.

The Southern Tragedy?

 

[Speedwell]

My response here:

was in responce to this:

bekkilyn said: ↑
Irrelevant. The candidates proposing to turn the U.S. into anything like Venezuela are....absolutely none of them.

And as I pointed out Chavez did not start out to wreck the Venezuelan economy except that his embrace of socialism did just that......

So remind us again: which Democratic candidates are proposing nationalization of the means of production?

 

[bekkilyn]

This is a form of gas lighting, the far right wing are trying very hard to mischaracterise the position of the left to be a position of full on Sociallism, when actually the left is only considering safety nets to help those in need and to give business owners and entrepreneurs a backstop for the risks they need to take. Also in support of some common infrastructure like hospitals and medical care which is needed by all in society, not just the rich.

The right wing supporters get caught up in this fear of "socialism" and it unites them to get up and vote at the next election.
It's just propaganda. The right seem to be driven by fear.

And what these right wing extremists either have no clue about or even completely ignore is that a federal health care safety net would help to inspire more people to start up small businesses and help them to thrive since they won't get massacred by health care costs for their employees (which they would need in order to be competitive with the larger businesses.) And solo entrepreneurs would be able to start up businesses without having to go without health care as so many need to do. Many people remain very underemployed, having to stay with an employer (and in jobs they despise) long after it's time for them to move on simply because of health insurance.

 

[bekkilyn]

Why would religious fundamentalists be opposed to any of that though?

Based on this thread, they obviously aren't opposed.

 

[bekkilyn]

What's horrifying is your extreme exaggeration of the issues.

Nothing I said in the post you quoted was false or an exaggeration.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

So remind us again: which Democratic candidates are proposing nationalization of the means of production?

I will bet it is the same number of Republican candidates that want smaller government…