Poll Finds That 42% Of Young Americans Would Elect A Socialist President

JackRT

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Years ago ago read a book called Beyond the Welfare State by Gunnar Myrdal, Nobel laureate and the chief architect of the Nordic Model. In it he opined that the Nordic Model would never work in the US because the quality of our civil service was too low and did not foster the kind of intellectual competence necessary.

Ouch!!!
 
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NightHawkeye

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Speedwell

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I'm not aware that any of those countries consider themselves socialist ... or even democratic socialists.

Wikipedia lists Socialist countries here: List of socialist states - Wikipedia

Wikipedia lists Democratic Socialist states here: Democratic socialism - Wikipedia

I don't see that either agrees with your statement.
No, you can't have it both ways. If the programs being proposed by Democratic political candidates are "socialist" then the countries of Western Europe and Scandinavia are "socialist" too.
 
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Fantine

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Since so many Americans are completely ignorant of what real socialism is, thinking the false right wing propaganda definition is correct, It's imposdible to poll correctly.
Give people real facts, then poll.
 
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mark46

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You are correct. The Nordic countries (the Nordic model) are not really democratic socialists. the means of production aren't owned by the workers. HOWEVER, the Nordic Model is what Sanders and others are calling democratic socialism. Republican ignore such distinctions. They call the Nordic countries socialist, the left wing Democrats socialist, and the centrist Democrats socialists.
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I don't think that any of the Democratic candidates are proposing democratic socialism. What they are indeed proposing is the Nordic model, which has a very large role of the federal government in meeting the needs of the people. There is also strong support for labor unions and high tax rates. Finally, there is generally strong support for a free market, with much less interference than is the policy of either Democrats or Republicans in the US.

I'm not aware that any of those countries
consider themselves socialist ... or even democratic socialists.

Wikipedia lists Socialist countries here: List of socialist states - Wikipedia

Wikipedia lists Democratic Socialist states here: Democratic socialism - Wikipedia

I don't see that either agrees with your statement.
 
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mark46

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Yes, the pollsters might ask "do you believe that the federal government should own the airlines and steel companies?"

Since so many Americans are completely ignorant of what real socialism is, thinking the false right wing propaganda definition is correct, It's imposdible to poll correctly.
Give people real facts, then poll.
 
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Skreeper

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stevil

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This is a form of gas lighting, the far right wing are trying very hard to mischaracterise the position of the left to be a position of full on Sociallism, when actually the left is only considering safety nets to help those in need and to give business owners and entrepreneurs a backstop for the risks they need to take. Also in support of some common infrastructure like hospitals and medical care which is needed by all in society, not just the rich.

The right wing supporters get caught up in this fear of "socialism" and it unites them to get up and vote at the next election.
It's just propaganda. The right seem to be driven by fear.
 
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civilwarbuff

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Textbook example of cherry-picking.

Picking out Venezuala as a representative example of socialism is liking picking out Charles Manson as representative of white people.
The reason I picked Venezuela is because there is no excuse for it to be in the position it is currently in except for socialism. It has had access for decades to billions in oil reserves and should be at the very least the wealthiest nation in SA if not in all of the the Americas. Instead they are in total collapse due to the socialistic policies and economics of its government.
 
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KCfromNC

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The GREAT news in the recent poll is that Independents were the least likely group to vote for a socialist.

Without Independents, it will be really hard for a Socialist to win.
That, plus no Socialists are actually running. At least not for a major party.
 
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Speedwell

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The reason I picked Venezuela is because there is no excuse for it to be in the position it is currently in except for socialism. It has had access for decades to billions in oil reserves and should be at the very least the wealthiest nation in SA if not in all of the the Americas. Instead they are in total collapse due to the socialistic policies and economics of its government.
That's your assertion. What's your argument? What other possible causes are there and how did you eliminate them? Arguments could be made that a single-party political system and corrupt practices could be contributory. How do you counter them? Since the Right's definition of socialism includes the countries of Western Europe and Scandinavia, explain why those countries are not also failed states.
 
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NightHawkeye

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No, you can't have it both ways. If the programs being proposed by Democratic political candidates are "socialist" then the countries of Western Europe and Scandinavia are "socialist" too.
When the candidates are proposing Socialism, then it is fair to call it socialism.

For example, you and I would probably agree that the Socialism in Venezuela under Hugo Chavez is the reason the economy collapsed. Curiously, Wikipedia, even now, is reluctant to label Venezuela Socialist. Instead, they call it populist.

Economic policy of the Hugo Chávez administration - Wikipedia
From his election in 1998 until his death in March 2013, the administration of the late Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez proposed and enacted populist economic policies as part of his Bolivarian Revolution.
The term Progressive has been appropriate for U.S. politics for many years as the government has assumed ever increasing control over the economy. It seems to be the fulfillment of the progressive vision of the early 20th century, a slow but steady march toward the Socialist ideal. With Barack Obama now being seriously called "conservative", it's pretty clear just how far left things have indeed progressed.
 
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civilwarbuff

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That's your assertion. What's your argument? What other possible causes are there and how did you eliminate them? Arguments could be made that a single-party political system and corrupt practices could be contributory. How do you counter them? Since the Right's definition of socialism includes the countries of Western Europe and Scandinavia, explain why those countries are not also failed states.

Sorry, I am not your encyclopedia. If you have a problem with my assertion refute it. But even the media acknowledges the reasoning behind Venezuela's failure even if you do not....
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/arti...g-venezuela-and-americans-dont-seem-to-notice
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...67849e-2b33-11e9-906e-9d55b6451eb4_story.html
Venezuela was my home, and socialism destroyed it. Slowly, it will destroy America, too. – The Burning Platform
 
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FreeinChrist

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The reason I picked Venezuela is because there is no excuse for it to be in the position it is currently in except for socialism. It has had access for decades to billions in oil reserves and should be at the very least the wealthiest nation in SA if not in all of the the Americas. Instead they are in total collapse due to the socialistic policies and economics of its government.
Yes, there is an excuse for the position it is in. It is an economy based on oil. That is why it was rich at one point, and mismanagement caused the problem.

Charting The Decline Of Venezuela's Oil Industry

Venezuela has the largest proved oil reserves in the world. But most of Venezuela's proved oil reserves consists of extra-heavy crude oil in the Orinoco Belt. The Orinoco contains an estimated 1.2 trillion barrels of oil resource (not to be confused with proved reserves).

This oil is particularly challenging to produce, which is why Venezuela invited international oil companies into the country to participate in the development of these reserves. Companies like ExxonMobil, BP, Chevron, Total and ConocoPhillips invested billions of dollars in technology and infrastructure to turn the extra-heavy oil into crude oil exports......

In 2007 oil prices were rising, and the Chávez government sought more revenue as the investments made by the international oil companies began to pay off. Venezuela demanded changes to the agreements made by the international oil companies that would give PDVSA majority control of the projects.

ExxonMobil and ConocoPhillips refused, and as a result, their assets were expropriated. (These expropriations were later ruled to be illegal, and compensation was granted to both companies).
So there are two related causes that have resulted in the steep decline of Venezuela's oil production, despite the the country's top rank in proved reserves....

https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Frrapier%2Ffiles%2F2019%2F01%2FVenezuelan-Oil-Production-Through-2018.jpg



Chavez didn't reinvest enough profits into the production of oil, and he chased out the expertise to put his guys into positions of power. Their oil production based economy crashed on them.

Chavez was an extreme socialist.
Guys like Bernie are not.

Using Venezuela as an example is just gaslighting,
 
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