Poll: Do you claim to be a New Covenant Christian?

Do You Claim to be under the New Covenant of Hebrews 8?

  • Yes I am under the Bible's New Covenant found in Hebrews 8 and Jeremiah 31

  • No I am not under the Bible's New Covenant

  • I am under some "other New Covenant" - one that is not in Hebrews 8

  • I don't know - haven't given it much thought


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BobRyan

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The NEW Covenant - as it is written in the actual Bible - is found in Jeremiah 31:31-33 and Hebrews 8:6-10.

Do you accept it - or reject it as applying to yourself today?

I claim to be a New Covenant Christian and at one time I thought all Christians would accept the New Covenant as applying to them as well. Since then some have made comments indicating they don't think it applies to them today.

What about you?

Heb 8
8“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Like many other Christians on this board -- I am a New Covenant Christian.

Jeremiah 31:31-33
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

The NEW Covenant is the ONE GOSPEL of Gal 1:6-9

As we see in Hebrews 8 -- it provides for

1. Forgiveness of sins
2. adoption into the family of God
3. A new heart and mind with the LAW of God written on it.
4. Taught directly by God Himself.
 
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Grandpa2390

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I'm a gentile. These verses are for the House of Israel and Judah. It is a new covenant to replace the old. There was never an old covenant made with my Gentile ancestors, so there cannot be a replacement one made.

But I do think we are sharing in the New Covenant :), but as for the term New Covenant Christian... I am not so sure. Not entirely sure what that means. So I am going to leave it at my explanation.
 
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BobRyan

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For those who say they are not a New Covenant Christian -- I would like to know if you would mind telling us what your pastor thinks of this. Does he also claim he is not a New Covenant Christian? If you don't know - please ask him and let us know. I genuinely would like to know.
 
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Grandpa2390

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For those who say they are not a New Covenant Christian -- I would like to know if you would mind telling us what your pastor thinks of this. Does he also claim he is not a New Covenant Christian? If you don't know - please ask him and let us know. I genuinely would like to know.

Like I said, I don't know exactly what the label implies. I do not believe the new covenant was referring to the church. But since believers are made sons of Abraham, then we believers do share in the Covenant even if it wasn't made with us.

If that is what you call new covenant christian, ok. If not... it sounds like it would fall under Pseudo-covenant christian at the least ;)
 
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BobRyan

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Well - it is interesting that Paul is quoting the New Covenant in Hebrews 8 as if it applies to us - and in 2Corinthians 3 - without quoting it - he is adamant that it applies to us.

2 Cor 3
4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of THE new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
 
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Grandpa2390

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Well - it is interesting that Paul is quoting the New Covenant in Hebrews 8 as if it applies to us - and in 2Corinthians 3 - without quoting it - he is adamant that it applies to us.

2 Cor 3
4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of THE new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

right, I don't want to give the impression that I am an expert on this matter and so forth. I am not debating. I'm trying to reconcile the two.

I'm not sure if he was quoting Hebrews. But they did have access to the same source ;)

anyways. to topic. In trying to reconcile the two, he new covenant was made with Israel. That much is certain. In this verse it doesn't say that the new covenant was made with the church. It just says that the gentiles (church) was made sufficient as ministers of the new covenant.
Trying to reconcile the two in order to avoid what could easily become viewed as a contradiction, I would follow the usual path.

He came for Israel, they rejected his new covenant. The Gentiles were made sufficient ministers of the new covenant.
 
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Grandpa2390

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Given what I have said about the Gentiles/church being sharers in New Covenant made with Israel rather than the New Covenant being made with the Church.

What would you say are the repercussions of that standpoint. You are the first person I have ever heard use the term New Covenant Christian. So I am on the questioning side.
Why is it important to believe that the New Covenant was made with the church rather than with Israel and the church grafted in.
 
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BobRyan

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Given what I have said about the Gentiles/church being sharers in New Covenant made with Israel rather than the New Covenant being made with the Church.

What would you say are the repercussions of that standpoint. You are the first person I have ever heard use the term New Covenant Christian. So I am on the questioning side.
Why is it important to believe that the New Covenant was made with the church rather than with Israel and the church grafted in.

Good question.

Galatians 1:6-9 says there is only ONE Gospel
Galatians 3:7 says that the ONE Gospel - was "preached to Abraham".
In Jeremiah 31:31-34 we have the promise of adoption as sons, forgiveness of sins, being made right with God in both heart and mind.

It appears that this is either "Another Gospel" or it is the "One Gospel" and in 2Cor 3 Paul claims to be a minister of it.

As for "Jew vs Gentile" ---from the Bible POV

Romans 2
26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Romans 9
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Like many other Christians on this board -- I am a New Covenant Christian. But not a physical Jew.
 
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BobRyan

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right, I don't want to give the impression that I am an expert on this matter and so forth. I am not debating. I'm trying to reconcile the two.

No objection here - all views welcome - just want a place to discuss and work out a few things.
 
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Grandpa2390

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Good question.

Galatians 1:6-9 says there is only ONE Gospel
Galatians 3:7 says that the ONE Gospel - was "preached to Abraham".
In Jeremiah 31:31-34 we have the promise of adoption as sons, forgiveness of sins, being made right with God in both heart and mind.

It appears that this is either "Another Gospel" or it is the "One Gospel" and in 2Cor 3 Paul claims to be a minister of it.

The difference between what we said is not whether it is a different gospel. But who it was given to first.

The verses you quoted about Jew vs Gentile are the very ones I am thinking of when I say that we are sharers in the new covenant. It was given to the children of Abraham, but since we accept Christ, we too become children of Abraham inwardly ;)

anyways, I don't know.I completely agree that we are sufficient ministers of the New Covenant. With my current understanding, I think we are reconcilable :)
 
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BobRyan

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The difference between what we said is not whether it is a different gospel. But who it was given to first.

The verses you quoted about Jew vs Gentile are the very ones I am thinking of when I say that we are sharers in the new covenant. It was given to the children of Abraham, but since we accept Christ, we too become children of Abraham inwardly ;)

anyways, I don't know.I completely agree that we are sufficient ministers of the New Covenant. With my current understanding, I think we are reconcilable :)

One and the same Gospel in OT and NT - such that the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-33 is quoted verbatim again - in Hebrews 8:6-10 reminding us of who we are in Christ,

As you point out - it is only because the Christian has accepted Christ, been adopted, born again, forgiven that he/she can claim to be under the New Covenant which promises those very things.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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I'm a gentile. These verses are for the House of Israel and Judah. ...

In this case I think it is good to notice this:

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.
Romans 2:28-29

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them, and became partaker with them of the root and of the richness of the olive tree;
Romans 11:17

“Gentiles” can become member of Israel, through Jesus, in Biblical point of view.
 
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BobRyan

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In this case I think it is good to notice this:

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.
Romans 2:28-29

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them, and became partaker with them of the root and of the richness of the olive tree;
Romans 11:17

“Gentiles” can become member of Israel, through Jesus, in Biblical point of view.

Amen!

As I recently posted as well --

Romans 2
26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Romans 9
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Heb 8
8“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Like many other Christians on this board -- I am a New Covenant Christian. But not a physical Jew.
 
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Open Heart

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The New Covenant promised TO ISRAEL in Hebrews and Jeremiah has not yet come to pass. For example, everyone will "know God." That's just not true. Most people don't just know God. They have to be taught about God. They have to seek God out.
 
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BobRyan

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The New Covenant promised TO ISRAEL in Hebrews

That much is true.

hence the reference we have here --

Romans 2
26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Romans 9
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Heb 8
8“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Like many other Christians on this board -- I am a New Covenant Christian..

In Gal 1:6-9 there is only ONE Gospel.

The NEW Covenant is that Gospel - it has adoption as children of God, AND forgiveness of sins.

Only ONE Gospel - and that Gospel was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

All God's Children who are adopted into the family of God - born-again believers "know God" - just as Christ points out in John 14.
For example, everyone will "know God." That's just not true.

It is true for believers - for those who are born again.

Matthew 16
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


1 John 2
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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I'm a gentile. These verses are for the House of Israel and Judah. It is a new covenant to replace the old. There was never an old covenant made with my Gentile ancestors, so there cannot be a replacement one made.

But I do think we are sharing in the New Covenant :), but as for the term New Covenant Christian... I am not so sure. Not entirely sure what that means. So I am going to leave it at my explanation.
Under the New Covenant Jews and Gentiles are merged into one faith in Christ. Therefore under this Covenant there is neither Jew nor Gentile, male nor female. We are all one in Christ. We drink from the same Holy Spirit. This was why Paul was so incensed toward some Jewish false apostles who went to the Galatian gentile churches and demanded that they be circumcised and comply with the Law of Moses. Under the New Covenant, neither Jew or Gentile were subject to the Law. For the Jew, the Law was fulfilled in the finished work of Christ. Through conversion to Christ, a new law is written on the hearts of every believer. This new law causes a person to conduct themselves according to the fruit of the Spirit as outlined in Galatians 5.
 
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BobRyan

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Heb 8
8“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

That is Hebrews 8 - quoting Jeremiah 31:31-33 verbatim and not editing it to say "A new law".

Under the New Covenant, neither Jew or Gentile were subject to the Law. For the Jew, the Law was fulfilled in the finished work of Christ. Through conversion to Christ, a new law is written on the hearts of every believer. .

Not according to the actual words in the New Covenant.

Exegesis demands that we admit that Jeremiah made no claim at all about "Not the Ten Commandments but a new law" -- therefore it is "still" a sin to take God's name in vain - even in the New Testament.

The result is that it is "still wrong to take God's name in vain" as per the TEN Commandments - even though that commandment is not quoted even in part -- in the NT.

Paul makes the statement in Ephesians 6:2 that the TEN Commandment unit still applies to Christians.

So also do Bible scholars in almost every denomination.
 
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bugkiller

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Well - it is interesting that Paul is quoting the New Covenant in Hebrews 8 as if it applies to us - and in 2Corinthians 3 - without quoting it - he is adamant that it applies to us.

2 Cor 3
4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of THE new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Can agree to that.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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right, I don't want to give the impression that I am an expert on this matter and so forth. I am not debating. I'm trying to reconcile the two.

I'm not sure if he was quoting Hebrews. But they did have access to the same source ;)

anyways. to topic. In trying to reconcile the two, he new covenant was made with Israel. That much is certain. In this verse it doesn't say that the new covenant was made with the church. It just says that the gentiles (church) was made sufficient as ministers of the new covenant.
Trying to reconcile the two in order to avoid what could easily become viewed as a contradiction, I would follow the usual path.

He came for Israel, they rejected his new covenant. The Gentiles were made sufficient ministers of the new covenant.
There is no way they can be reconciled. They are totally different. For instance the OC is made with law and a bilateral deal to boot. That is both parties are obligated. THE NC is based on better promises per Heb 8:6. Under the NC only God is obligated, a unilateral deal. There is no obligation of the individual receiving the gift. If the recipient was obligated, it would not be a gift.

Even Peter was astonished a goy (gentile) was included in this NC without submitting to the law.

Jesus uses "whosoever will" and never requires submission to the law.

Luke says the law and prophets were until John. (LK 16:16) That means the law is a has been. Paul also agrees with this in Gal 3:19.

bugkiller
 
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