Poll...Do You Believe Conspiracy Theories Have Merit?

Do You Believe Conspiracy Theories Have Merit?

  • Have merit

  • No merit

  • Love them

  • Hate them


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HisdaughterJen

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It looks like Elijah will come as one of the two witnesses that is killed by the beast out of the abyss, which I think is the false prophet (beast out of the earth)....so, Elijah will be around during the reign of the beasts, trying to testify from Jerusalem about Jesus.
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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It looks like Elijah will come as one of the two witnesses that is killed by the beast out of the abyss, which I think is the false prophet (beast out of the earth)....so, Elijah will be around during the reign of the beasts, trying to testify from Jerusalem about Jesus.
The Antichrist comes first though. Bible 2 was saying that he thought that Elijah one of the witnesses could be the forerunner to Christ. That is unscriptural.
 
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HisdaughterJen

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The Antichrist comes first though. Bible 2 was saying that he thought that Elijah one of the witnesses could be the forerunner to Christ. That is unscriptural.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding you...or maybe we're talking about different things...but....

Mal 4:1"Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire," says the Lord Almighty. "Not a root or a branch will be left to them.


Mal 4:2But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall.

Mal 4:3Then you will trample down the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things," says the Lord Almighty.

Mal 4:4"Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel.

Mal 4:5"See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes.

Mal 4:6He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse."


Here are Moses and Elijah (two witnesses) mentioned together with end times symbolism. The two witnesses do what Moses and Elijah did. Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus when He was transfigured.


Mat 17:10The disciples asked him, "Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?"
Mat 17:11Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. (Actually)
Mat 17:12But I tell you, Elijah has already come (symbolically), and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands."
Mat 17:13Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.


I'm leaning toward believing that the temple will be rebuilt while Moses and Elijah are testifying because of Zech 4. They will be here during dangerous times because people will try to kill them or harm them and it looks like it's the false prophet who is allowed to kill them...(beast out of the earth/beast out of the abyss)...so I would think that they are here during the reign of the anti-christ....although they could arrive sooner and their 42 months could slightly overlap with the 42 months of the beast instead of be the same.
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Maybe I'm misunderstanding you...or maybe we're talking about different things...but....
I had said in a prior post that John the Baptist came before Jesus the first time. The Antichrist will come before Jesus comes back again...something like that anyway. Bible2 said this:The forerunner to Jesus' first coming was John the
Baptist (Luke 3:4), who came in the spirit of Elijah
(Luke 1:17). The forerunner to Jesus' second coming
could be Elijah himself (Matthew 17:11) as one of
the two witnesses (Revelation 11:3).
I was just clarifying to him again that the Antichrist comes before Jesus second coming...even before Elijah. I might not have made myself clear:) I should never post and watch tv at the same time lol. We are pretty sure that one of the witnesses is Elijah who comes during the tribulation. The beast kills them and they rise at 3.5 days. That's intersting to me that the tribulation is 3.5 years long, and the two witnesses rise after 3.5 days :scratch: Weird.

I'm leaning toward believing that the temple will be rebuilt while Moses and Elijah are testifying because of Zech 4. They will be here during dangerous times because people will try to kill them or harm them and it looks like it's the false prophet who is allowed to kill them...(beast out of the earth/beast out of the abyss)...so I would think that they are here during the reign of the anti-christ....although they could arrive sooner and their 42 months could slightly overlap with the 42 months of the beast instead of be the same.
I'm leaning more to the temple being built before the Antichrist reigns, before the Great tribulation starts. I get this thinking from the chronology of Matt 24. We are I believe in the last of the beginning of sorrows right now (Matt 24:8), and the abomination of desolation is right close after that in Matthew 24:15. The Jews say that the temple has to be built to the exact specifications of the old temple. That is going to take a good amount of time, and the tribulation is only 3.5 years. Unless there is a goodly amount of time between Matt 24:8 and Matt 24:15...8 verses, there wouldn't be a lot of time there otherwise for construction.
 
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HisdaughterJen

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I had said in a prior post that John the Baptist came before Jesus the first time. The Antichrist will come before Jesus comes back again...something like that anyway. Bible2 said this:The forerunner to Jesus' first coming was John the
Baptist (Luke 3:4), who came in the spirit of Elijah
(Luke 1:17). The forerunner to Jesus' second coming
could be Elijah himself (Matthew 17:11) as one of
the two witnesses (Revelation 11:3).
I was just clarifying to him again that the Antichrist comes before Jesus second coming...even before Elijah. I might not have made myself clear:) I should never post and watch tv at the same time lol. We are pretty sure that one of the witnesses is Elijah who comes during the tribulation. The beast kills them and they rise at 3.5 days. That's intersting to me that the tribulation is 3.5 years long, and the two witnesses rise after 3.5 days :scratch: Weird.

I'm leaning more to the temple being built before the Antichrist reigns, before the Great tribulation starts. I get this thinking from the chronology of Matt 24. We are I believe in the last of the beginning of sorrows right now (Matt 24:8), and the abomination of desolation is right close after that in Matthew 24:15. The Jews say that the temple has to be built to the exact specifications of the old temple. That is going to take a good amount of time, and the tribulation is only 3.5 years. Unless there is a goodly amount of time between Matt 24:8 and Matt 24:15...8 verses, there wouldn't be a lot of time there otherwise for construction.


Well, I guess that's where we differ in opinion...

If Elijah is one of the two witnesses, then he would have to come before or at the same time as the anti-christ because the anti-christ...or possibly more accurately, the false prophet...is the one who kills them. The two witnesses are only given 3.5 years to testify, as you know. And so is the devil...3.5 years to reign.

So, the two witnesses, who are essentially killed by the devil (anti-christ/false prophet who are given authority of the devil for a total of 3.5 years) will have to have completed their 3.5 years of testimony before the devil can kill them, right?

That would mean that the two witnesses (including Elijah, if he is one of them which I think he is) would have to arrive BEFORE or at least at the exact same time as the reign of the beast....right?

If the devil (in the form of the anti-christ/false prophet) kills the two witnesses after their 3.5 years of testimony, then the reign of the beast would come to an end not long after that...certainly after the 6th trumpet (where the beast wages war and kills 1/3 of the earth's population) and beginning with the bowls poured out on the kingdom of the beast, followed by Christ's coming with the angels to destroy the army of the beasts formed against Him.

If the beast out of the abyss is the one who kills the two witnesses (which I think is the beast out of the earth/the false prophet), then the beast wages war on the earth's population after the two witnesses are killed. This would mean that the 3.5 years of the two witnesses and the 3.5 years of the reign of the beast are NOT the same but slightly overlap...with the 3.5 years of the two witnesses beginning first.
 
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Bible2

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No scripture requires that Matthew 24:16 isn't addressed to those in
the church who will be living in Judaea (southern Israel) when they
see the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15).

---

The woman of Revelation 12 is the church, seen clothed with the
sun of righteousness (Revelation 12:1, Malachi 4:2), just as later
she's seen clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8), which
comes only through faith in Jesus (Romans 3:22). All those who
have faith in Jesus are part of his body, the church (Ephesians
4:4-5).

---

Mark 8:35-38 does refer to some believers saving their physical lives
by renouncing Jesus and the Bible, just as Matthew 24:9-13 refers
to some believers becoming "offended" by God allowing believers to
be killed during the tribulation, so that these believers will become
apostate and even betray believers to death.

Mark 8:36 and 2 Timothy 2:12b do mean that if believers deny Jesus
and the Bible and become apostate they'll lose their salvation
(Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6).

---

Hebrews 2:15 was referenced with regard to not fearing death.

---

Just as Matthew 10:23 says to flee persecution, so Matthew 24:16
means to flee persecution, that persecution which will occur during
the reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 12:6, 13:7-10, 14:12-13,
20:4).

---

Jesus did walk away from persecutions (Luke 4:30, John 10:39), just
as Paul left places of persecution (Acts 17:10,14), but not from
cowardice, just as the fleeing from persecution commanded of
believers in Matthew 10:23 should never be done out of cowardice.

But, at the same time, believers should never become prideful and
think that they're stronger than they really are. Jesus could
command the fleeing of persecution in Matthew 10:23 because no
believer really knows how he or she will stand up to it if he or she
sticks around long enough for it to get really nasty.

For example, a believer could be all cocky and say "I'm not going to
flee this persecution, even though I now have the chance to;
I don't care what Matthew 10:23 says! I'm going to stay put and be
strong and do exploits!" But then that believer could be captured
and tortured, and his or her proud "strength" could melt away in an
instant, so that he or she commits apostasy in order to be released
from the torture.

God never places believers into any situation which they can't
handle by his grace (1 Corinthians 10:13). But that doesn't mean
that they can willfully and proudly cast themselves down from the
pinnacle of the temple, as it were, and expect God to send his
angels to miraculously save them before they go "splat". Believers
must never test God in such a way (Matthew 4:5-7).

If believers willfully and proudly disobey Jesus' command in Matthew
10:23 and refuse to flee a persecution when they have the chance
to, they could very well find themselves in a situation which they
can't handle, and in which God won't necessarily work a miracle to
save them.

Better to be humble and flee a persecution when one has the
chance to, than to be proud and fall into apostasy when it really
gets nasty. God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble
(James 4:6). Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit
before a fall (Proverbs 16:18).

---

No one has said that Christians need to categorize every evil that
the internet holds as being prophecy unfolding. But evil does need
to be categorized (e.g. Galatians 5:19-21) so that believers can
know all of its myriad variations, and not be deceived by any of
them (2 Corinthians 2:11).

---

It doesn't go against any scripture to say that the "small people" in
Daniel 11:23 are those numerically-small Druze and/or secret-society
Luciferians who will help the Antichrist become stronger in power
when he first comes upon the world scene; or to say that he could
be an Arab from Tyre, Lebanon (Ezekiel 28:2, cf. 2 Thessalonians
2:4) who is a Druze and a member of a worldwide secret society the
highest members of which are all gnostic Luciferians.

---

It wasn't said that Elijah will come before Antichrist comes, for if
Elijah is one of the two witnesses, he could prophesy during the
same 1,260 days (Revelation 11:3) as the reign of the Antichrist
(Revelation 12:6b, 13:5). The reign of the Antichrist could legally
end (Revelation 11:15) when the time of the two witnesses ends
(Revelation 11:12).

---

The posting-name "Bible2" doesn't mean "A second Holy Bible", but
rather was chosen only because the posting-names "Read the Bible"
and "Bible" were already taken. It can be read as "Bible too" (cf.
Matthew 4:4).

---

Elijah being one of the two witnesses, and so a forerunner to
Christ's second coming, isn't necessarily unscriptural: Matthew
17:11 could refer to a future coming of Elijah in person, before the
second coming.

---

It wasn't said that Jesus' second coming happens before the
reign of the Antichrist.

---

Nothing requires that the reign of the Antichrist will come before
Elijah comes.

---

The temple could be built before the 3.5-year world-reign of the
Antichrist (Revelation 13:5b,7b), for that reign could start at the
abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15), when the Antichrist will
attack an already-built temple, stop the sacrifices in front of it, and
sit in the temple and proclaim himself God (Daniel 11:31,36,
2 Thessalonians 2:4, Revelation 13:4-18).
 
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