Poll: Americans Don't Care About Russia Story

[DaisyDay]

Ok read it (thank you). Problem is in the report many times it says the "hack" actually did not affect the vote tallying. So I was right. There was no hacking of the votes. Trump didn't win because of a hack concerning votes. He won because people voted for him.

Some voting machines were hacked; no votes were changed, the Russians just poked around to see what they could see and to save information for future reference. Just because no votes were changed does not mean that the hacking did not take place. You are right that Donald won without Russians changing any votes on the voting machines.

All the report basically says is "Russia favored Trump". How is that hacking of any kind?

If you leave out the part where they actually hacked the machines, then that's what you have left, but that's an extremely disingenuous way to argue.

England favors Hillary. Is that hacking too? No of course not. Countries are allowed to like who they want. Now you may say "No, Russia tried to sway people away from Hillary and towards Trump! Its hacking!".

Uh what? Isn't that what Trump and Hillary did to each other? Have smear campaigns to sway people from the other? Thats called politics. Heck the whole world sways people in one way or another. Trying to claim thats "hacking" the election is like claiming persuading your spouse on what movie to see is hacking and wrong.

So in the end this just proves desperation and grasping at straws from anti-Trump people. Again, I don't like Trump but I feel the hate is the strongest I have ever seen from people. If he was really impeachable then people would have found different reasons to do it by now, not just some russian thing that lead no were. Heck I can think of better reasons to show hes not really fit for president.

Leaving out the part about actual hacking to claim the remaining part doesn't show hacking doesn't fool anyone but the person making the dishonest argument.

 

[lasthero]

If they had success in hacking machines then I'd say obviously things would need to change and it would be a big deal. But since it didn't work then it wans't a big deal. Trump won fair and square

What kind of screwball logic is that?

'Yeah, they tried to completely undermine one of our most sacred processes for their own ends...but it didn't work, so who cares?!'

If someone tries to break into your house, but isn't successful, does that not concern you?

 

[Obliquinaut]

What kind of screwball logic is that?

'Yeah, they tried to completely undermine one of our most sacred processes for their own ends...but it didn't work, so who cares?!'

If someone tries to break into your house, but isn't successful, does that not concern you?

It's the latest means by which the GOP (the party of Ronald Reagan, you might remember them, they used to be staunchly anti-communist now their best buddy on the international stage is a former KGB agent-turned-Russian Dicatator) finds a way to NOT be disturbed by a former KGB-agent-turned-Russian-Dictator with a known penchant or manipulating other country's elections possibly trying to manipulate our elections.

Oh yeah, and don't forget that the GOP used to be VERY SCARED OF FOREIGN AGENTS INFILTRATING OUR COUNTRY...now if it's a Russian it's no big whoop.

Donny Trump Jr. attempts to undermine an opponent of his father's using material possibly gained from a foreign spy agency who explicitly wanted to swing the election to his father...that's just being a good politician and a good son. Next thing we know outright treason will be OK, so long as it was for the betterment of Team Trump.

 

[Allandavid]

Some voting machines were hacked; no votes were changed, the Russians just poked around to see what they could see and to save information for future reference. Just because no votes were changed does not mean that the hacking did not take place. You are right that Donald won without Russians changing any votes on the voting machines.

If you leave out the part where they actually hacked the machines, then that's what you have left, but that's an extremely disingenuous way to argue.

Leaving out the part about actual hacking to claim the remaining part doesn't show hacking doesn't fool anyone but the person making the dishonest argument.

Not to mention the hacking of the DNC and Clinton's files...! Trump people conveniently hide behind their narrow definition of what a hack is, in order to look the other way...

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

It says on the first page of the report (emphasis mine):
"Thus, while the conclusions in the report are all reflected in the classified assessment, the declassified report does not and cannot include the full supporting information, including specific intelligence and sources and methods."

That excuse won't fly. If the evidence were classified, they couldn't discuss the matter with anybody who isn't working on the case, let alone the press.

He also has killed dissident journalists (Source)

Did you actually read your source? It openly admits:

"As for the other assassinations of journalists during his reign, experts say Putin isn’t directly responsible for any of them."

Oh yeah, and don't forget that the GOP used to be VERY SCARED OF FOREIGN AGENTS INFILTRATING OUR COUNTRY...now if it's a Russian it's no big whoop.

Consider:

• The Mexican government makes open claims to sovereignty over both American citizens and territory and promotes the migration of its nationals in order to chip away at American independence.
• A seemingly endless flow of Chinese, motivated by racial and national loyalty, are leaking American defense technology to their homeland; the MSM buries the stories out of fear of being called racist.
• Saudi Arabia funds terrorist groups and networks within the United States and Europe, yet the same American military which the federal government won’t use to secure our own border is used to guard the Kingdom. (And of course, Huma Abedin, Hillary Clinton’s close aide, has strong ties to the Saudi government).
• Israel defines itself as a Jewish state, has a border wall, and has a powerful lobby in this country which has a huge amount of influence in both political parties. Israel’s hold on American foreign policy, and the willingness of many American Jews to vote or oppose certain politicians based on the depth of their support for the Jewish State, is completely understood and taken for granted by the American public [Indecision 5768, The Daily Show]

Yes, there is good reason to be afraid of foreign agents. Just not Russians. It isn't Russia that's made claims against US territory or sponsored terrorist networks. There's no Russia lobby working to manipulate US foreign policy in Moscow's favor, for if there were, you'd see a lot more opposition to further sanctions against Russia in congress that you do.

Simply put, Russia is not an enemy, and there is no good reason to view her as such.

Not to mention the hacking of the DNC and Clinton's files...!

First, that's the DNC's problem. If they're embarrassed that it got out how they rigged the primary in Clinton's favor, maybe they should have thought about that beforehand. Second Julian Assange has already denied that the got those emails from Russia or any state actor. What he has notably not denied is that they were leaked to him murdered DNC staffer Seth Rich.

 

[Obliquinaut]

Simply put, Russia is not an enemy, and there is no good reason to view her as such.

Really? A country actively hacks our systems and makes efforts to control our democratic election cycle and they aren't an enemy?

Ask the Ukranians and the various other neighbors to Russia how they feel about their elections being hacked by Russia. Ask if they think of them as "friends".

 

[EpiscipalMe]

That excuse won't fly. If the evidence were classified, they couldn't discuss the matter with anybody who isn't working on the case, let alone the press.



Did you actually read your source? It openly admits:

"As for the other assassinations of journalists during his reign, experts say Putin isn’t directly responsible for any of them."




Consider:


Yes, there is good reason to be afraid of foreign agents. Just not Russians. It isn't Russia that's made claims against US territory or sponsored terrorist networks. There's no Russia lobby working to manipulate US foreign policy in Moscow's favor, for if there were, you'd see a lot more opposition to further sanctions against Russia in congress that you do.

Simply put, Russia is not an enemy, and there is no good reason to view her as such.



First, that's the DNC's problem. If they're embarrassed that it got out how they rigged the primary in Clinton's favor, maybe they should have thought about that beforehand. Second Julian Assange has already denied that the got those emails from Russia or any state actor. What he has notably not denied is that they were leaked to him murdered DNC staffer Seth Rich.

So, you refuse to believe that there is anything to the Russia story, despite mounting circumstantial evidence. Yet, you believe Seth Rich was murdered by Clinton operatives, despite absolutely no evidence.

You are firmly entrenched in Donald Trump's alternative reality.

 

[DaisyDay]

Not to mention the hacking of the DNC and Clinton's files...! Trump people conveniently hide behind their narrow definition of what a hack is, in order to look the other way...

The DNC emails were hacked, but not Clinton's.

 

[Hank77]

Ok read it (thank you). Problem is in the report many times it says the "hack" actually did not affect the vote tallying. So I was right. There was no hacking of the votes.

You have been told multiple times that the vote was NOT effected in anyway. Don't you read the responses you get?

 

[Allandavid]

The DNC emails were hacked, but not Clinton's.

Thanks...

 

[Allandavid]

First, that's the DNC's problem. If they're embarrassed that it got out how they rigged the primary in Clinton's favor, maybe they should have thought about that beforehand. Second Julian Assange has already denied that the got those emails from Russia or any state actor. What he has notably not denied is that they were leaked to him murdered DNC staffer Seth Rich.

Wha...??

It's a crime...!

Tell you what, the next time your house is burgled and the cop tells you "that's your problem", let me know how you react......

 

[Hank77]

All the report basically says is "Russia favored Trump". How is that hacking of any kind?

Cybersecurity officials have become increasingly worried about the issue in the wake of revelations that Russia-based hackers were behind two recent hacking attempts into state voter registration databases.

One incident included stealing information from roughly 200,000 Illinois voting records. In another attempt in Arizona, cyber criminals used malware to try and breach voting records, forcing state officials to disable online voting registration for nine days as they investigated the unsuccessful hacking.
NSA head worries about potential Russian hacking of U.S. elections

Yes there was hacking. There is a big difference between hacking voter registration data and hacking into voting machines to change votes.
BUT if they did hack in to voter registration data files and could change things like first names, a birth dates, an addresses, etc. it could wreck havoc at the polls and people couldn't vote.
This is very serious, it's not a game.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I give up...it is impossible to debate with the wilfully ignorant....

I could throw that back at you.

It is a big deal. We are talking thousands upon thousands of attacks. They accessed and edited databases that were thankfully reverted, and this is just the stuff we know about.

See below....

What kind of screwball logic is that?

'Yeah, they tried to completely undermine one of our most sacred processes for their own ends...but it didn't work, so who cares?!'

If someone tries to break into your house, but isn't successful, does that not concern you?

Different thing entierly. Now if they did manage to change some votes and we found out, then I would care. Now I do realize this could mean they could change votes next time, and if they do then it will matter. As for right now people are acting like they did something that affected Trumps win when they did nothing to change his win. He won by legit votes. Case closed. Sore losers honestly.

It's the latest means by which the GOP (the party of Ronald Reagan, you might remember them, they used to be staunchly anti-communist now their best buddy on the international stage is a former KGB agent-turned-Russian Dicatator) finds a way to NOT be disturbed by a former KGB-agent-turned-Russian-Dictator with a known penchant or manipulating other country's elections possibly trying to manipulate our elections.

Oh yeah, and don't forget that the GOP used to be VERY SCARED OF FOREIGN AGENTS INFILTRATING OUR COUNTRY...now if it's a Russian it's no big whoop.

Donny Trump Jr. attempts to undermine an opponent of his father's using material possibly gained from a foreign spy agency who explicitly wanted to swing the election to his father...that's just being a good politician and a good son. Next thing we know outright treason will be OK, so long as it was for the betterment of Team Trump.

Whos GOP? Not me. I have no political affiliation for the very reason of your response. Both sides are full of people who act like brats and bullies. I have no intention on picking a side since both sides are equally annoying.

You have been told multiple times that the vote was NOT effected in anyway. Don't you read the responses you get?

I did. But then people keep saying the hacking did change things. To me hacking in an election makes me think of literally hacking a vote. Not hacking unimportant things that changed nothing. Does this mean hacking isn't a big deal? No. Obviously they could have changed votes if they wanted. But for now Trump won fairly. And until the next election we need to change the voting system so Russia doesn't have another chance to actually change votes. Or any other country for that matter.

With all that said people are so beyond desperate to get Trump out that they are blowing everything out of proportion just to make him basically sound like hes worse then Hitler and that he met up with up with russians and asked them to change votes. I mean thats what I am seeing on all the news. They heavily favor Hillary so they hate on Trump like crazy. As crazy as Trump may be, he does make a good point about fake news. Even if not all news is fake.

Remember before the election? When the biased news said Hillary had a 100% chance of winning. That in no way would Trump ever win. That he was sad person for even thinking he could even get close to Hillaries votes. And when he officially won the people went nuts because the news fed them lies and made them feel like they were safe because Hillary would win. I still remember the people all over the country on video having mental breakdowns. Giving the finger to cameras, screaming and crying in the street curled in a ball. College kids getting free pizza, coffee, "skip class" passes and therapy dogs. I mean really?!? Its as if the world ended for these people. If you were an alien just looking at earth at that time you'd think something was killing off the planet going how people were reacting.

Yes, we can bring up how people acted when Obama won but it was no where near this level of mental breakdown. I felt bad because it made americans look crazy. And yes I voted for Obama since people will assume I voted for the right/republican.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I should add I voted for Trump ONLY because I was hoping he would get impeached. Sounds stupid I know but Hillary would not get impeached and thats far scarier. She would make the nation worse in terms of rights for anyone who has opinions differing to hers. My hope is Trump gets impeached and we can have Pence. Sure, he he ain't perfect but I'll take him over Trump or Hillary. Granted I think people are still a bit crazy and will try and vote him out and everyone after him.

 

[Hank77]

As for right now people are acting like they did something that affected Trumps win when they did nothing to change his win.

No, that is an assumption that you are making because you can't understand why what Russia did is such a big deal. Because only the actual election is important to you, you think everyone else thinks the same way.

Not one person that I know of in these threads or anywhere has said the votes were changed in Trump's favor.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Really? A country actively hacks our systems and makes efforts to control our democratic election cycle and they aren't an enemy?

What country are you talking about? Israel has been doing that for decades with AIPAC.

Ask the Ukranians and the various other neighbors to Russia how they feel about their elections being hacked by Russia. Ask if they think of them as "friends".

Some of Russia's neighbors, like Belarus and Kazakhstan, have good relations with Russia. As far as the Ukraine goes, remember three years ago: The legally elected government was overthrown in a US backed coup because it attempted to enter a trade agreement with Russia, and puppet regime was installed. This new government, in blatant violation of its own constitution, sent the army into Donbass and butchered thousands of its own citizens. Furthermore, it imposed on the Ukraine the same IMF-dictated austerity policies that nearly ruined Russia back in the 90's. It wasn't Russia that did this, it was America.

So, you refuse to believe that there is anything to the Russia story, despite mounting circumstantial evidence.

It's only evidence if you're willing to accept argument from authority.

Yet, you believe Seth Rich was murdered by Clinton operatives, despite absolutely no evidence.

I believe what? I was talking about Seth Rich leaking the DNC emails to Wikileaks, which there is evidence for. I said nothing about his murder, beyond noting that he was murdered. Why put words in my mouth? I do notice, here and from other threads, that Seth Rich is a very touchy subject for critics of Trump. Even mentioning his name brings strong reactions and invocations of the man's family.

It's true that there is no evidence implicating the Clinton campaign or the DNC in Rich's murder. It's also true that there is no evidence implicating Putin or the Russian government in the murders of Anna Politkovskaya or Boris Nemtsov. Yet claims to that effect are made frequently and nobody bats an eyelid.

The DNC emails were hacked, but not Clinton's.

Considering that she put them on a private server, they might well have been hacked and nobody would know. God only knows who has them now...

 

[EpiscipalMe]

It's only evidence if you're willing to accept argument from authority.

So that's a no, you don't believe there is anything to the Russia story despite mounting evidence?

I believe what? I was talking about Seth Rich leaking the DNC emails to Wikileaks, which there is evidence for. I said nothing about his murder, beyond noting that he was murdered. Why put words in my mouth? I do notice, here and from other threads, that Seth Rich is a very touchy subject for critics of Trump. Even mentioning his name brings strong reactions and invocations of the man's family.

It's true that there is no evidence implicating the Clinton campaign or the DNC in Rich's murder. It's also true that there is no evidence implicating Putin or the Russian government in the murders of Anna Politkovskaya or Boris Nemtsov. Yet claims to that effect are made frequently and nobody bats an eyelid.

There is much more evidence about Russian attempting to influence the election and for communication with Trump's campaign than there is that Seth Rich was the source of the leaks.

Like I said, you are firmly entrenched in Trump's world of alternative facts.

 

[lasthero]

Different thing entierly.

Saying it's a different thing entirely doesn't make it so.

Now if they did manage to change some votes and we found out, then I would care.

So it's okay as long as you don't find out about it?

Now I do realize this could mean they could change votes next time, and if they do then it will matter.

I have a better idea - instead of assuming we'll catch them when and if they try this again, how about we just make sure it doesn't happen again?

I'm sorry, I just don't get your train of thought - they tried to alter votes, to undermine our entire process, and the fact they didn't succeed means we should just act like it's no big deal? Explain to me how that's different than someone trying to break into your house, failing, and then you acting like it's no big deal?

When the biased news said Hillary had a 100% chance of winning. That in no way would Trump ever win.

This isn't directed at me, but I want to interject, anyway - this is straight up untrue. No one - no one with real data, anyway - said he was 100% losing. You will not find a single poll that didn't give him at least some chance. As I recall, the overall odds had him at 70-30, which aren't a great chance, but it's hardly the first time in history that someone with a lower chance wound up winning, anyway.

 

[lasthero]

No, that is an assumption that you are making because you can't understand why what Russia did is such a big deal. Because only the actual election is important to you, you think everyone else thinks the same way.

Not one person that I know of in these threads or anywhere has said the votes were changed in Trump's favor.

I'm with you, dude. It's like talking to the Mayor in Jaws.

"I think you're going to ignore this particular problem until it swims up and bites you in the-"

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

No, that is an assumption that you are making because you can't understand why what Russia did is such a big deal. Because only the actual election is important to you, you think everyone else thinks the same way.

Not one person that I know of in these threads or anywhere has said the votes were changed in Trump's favor.

So as stated, if no one talked about votes being then what is the point of this thread? To talk about other things Russia did that swayed people? Not sure how its even newsworthy to talk about. Politics is about lying and manipulation and swaying. People suddenly act like its a big deal, and its only because Trump won that they think this way. They need someone to blame for Hillarys loss when the truth is she lost because of her past. Sure she just barley lost, but she lost none the less. If not for her terrible husband she probably could have won. Well and cocky put downs on Trump... not that Trump was any better really.

So that's a no, you don't believe there is anything to the Russia story despite mounting evidence?

See above. I see evidence that they did what countries always do when another country having elections... and that is try to sway people by doing things that in end the didn't really affect the outcome vote wise. Unless the argument is because of their involvement, people were swayed to vote Trump and hence what they did is a big deal.

If that is the argument then we should make a big deal out of our friends or family who tried to persuade us (and did) to change our vote. Because obviously they are interfering with the election process right?

There is much more evidence about Russian attempting to influence the election and for communication with Trump's campaign than there is that Seth Rich was the source of the leaks.

Like I said, you are firmly entrenched in Trump's world of alternative facts.

Again you assume I am a Trump fan. Seems like Trump haters only response is to fall back onto "Cause you love Trump!". Assumptions.

Saying it's a different thing entirely doesn't make it so.

Saying its the same thing enteriely doesn't make it so.

how about we just make sure it doesn't happen again?

That I can agree with.

I'm sorry, I just don't get your train of thought - they tried to alter votes, to undermine our entire process, and the fact they didn't succeed means we should just act like it's no big deal? Explain to me how that's different than someone trying to break into your house, failing, and then you acting like it's no big deal?

See above. As long as people stop trying to say Trump won because of Russia.

This isn't directed at me, but I want to interject, anyway - this is straight up untrue. No one - no one with real data, anyway - said he was 100% losing. You will not find a single poll that didn't give him at least some chance. As I recall, the overall odds had him at 70-30, which aren't a great chance, but it's hardly the first time in history that someone with a lower chance wound up winning, anyway.

But for most who are gullable and watch the news they assume they are being told the truth. Even if the resports said 70-30, it still shows the media was trying to sway people also to believe Trump didn't have much of a chance. Hence fake news was born.