Politics Brings Out The Worst

[IAMABELIEVER1979]

What do you think politics brings out the worst in people? I mean, why can't we just agree to disagree?

I was on Hillary Clinton's page on Facebook and of course there were conservatives fighting with liberals. And there were name-calling and insults flying around.

Now, I am generally liberal, but I don't think that conservatives are horrible people. I just don't get it.

It is very scary to voice your opinion very respectfully because you have people going off on you no matter how respectful you are to them. You can't politely disagree with somebody without them calling you names.

Don't you think that's what the biggest problem is: not the bathroom laws or gay marriages or abortion, but our intolerance towards one another?

 

[Rebecca12]

Sometimes I agree to disagree. Sometimes not. I never agree to disagree with someone who lies. Or someone who has no factual support for a position that requires factual support. Agreeing to disagree implies at least some level of respect for the other's position.

Sometimes I think we need a little less tolerance. We are tolerating a tremendous amount of bad behavior in our country right now.

It can be difficult when people respond with an attack. Take the high road. Make sure your opinions are well grounded in fact. My political discussions tend to be heavily fact based, I don't assume bad motives on the other side, and if people attack me I pause and consider carefully how to respond. Generally, I try to bring it back to the topic rather than the deflection, which can be the purpose of the attack. Know why you are having the conversation and think about your goals before you say something.

 

[IAMABELIEVER1979]

Sometimes I agree to disagree. Sometimes not. I never agree to disagree with someone who lies. Or someone who has no factual support for a position that requires factual support. Agreeing to disagree implies at least some level of respect for the other's position.

Sometimes I think we need a little less tolerance. We are tolerating a tremendous amount of bad behavior in our country right now.

Thank you very much for your reply. That is something to think about.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Politics tends to make us look small and petty when we are in fact more complex human beings, in my opinion.

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

Yes you're very right.

 

[ananda]

I thought it was obvious: the core essence of politics is force - force of law, used to compel unwilling others to bend to your will.

Conservatives wish to force liberals to bend to conservative will. Liberals wish to force conservatives to bend to liberal will.

If they didn't try to force or fight with each another, and allowed each other the space to live in peace, then they wouldn't be conservative or liberal ... they would be libertarians.

 

[Rebecca12]

I thought it was obvious: the core essence of politics is force - force of law, used to compel unwilling others to bend to your will.

I am not a libertarian so I would prefer you not force me and people I care about to bend to a libertarian's will.

 

[Rajni]

I find I'm gradually reverting back to where I could care less
about politics, and it feels great!

-

 

[ananda]

I am not a libertarian so I would prefer you not force me and people I care about to bend to a libertarian's will.

Do as you will.

Libertarians only see the need for force if someone measurably trespasses against another, and then the force is employed only to the extent to correct and equalize the trespass.

 

[IAMABELIEVER1979]

I find I'm gradually reverting back to where I could care less
about politics, and it feels great!

-

Maybe I should start caring less as well.

 

[Rajni]

I just perceive that a lot of it is influenced by focus on what the media
says. I can't even be sure that the information I get from there is even
accurate, so I figure why let it influence my worldview?

I like how Mark Twain put it: “In religion and politics people’s beliefs
and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and
without examination, from authorities who have not themselves
examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand
from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a
brass farthing.”


-

 

[IAMABELIEVER1979]

I just perceive that a lot of it is influenced by focus on what the media
says. I can't even be sure that the information I get from there is even
accurate, so I figure why let it influence my worldview?

I like how Mark Twain put it: “In religion and politics people’s beliefs
and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and
without examination, from authorities who have not themselves
examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand
from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a
brass farthing.”


-

Interesting an informative


I never thought of it that way.

 

[Rebecca12]

Do as you will.

Libertarians only see the need for force if someone measurably trespasses against another, and then the force is employed only to the extent to correct and equalize the trespass.

Well, there are many different shades of libertarianism but I find it a philosophy of the privileged. (Though Von Hayek advocated having a minimum guaranteed income, which doesn't much sound like most of today's proponents of Libertarianism). You could say taxation to pay for social welfare programs is theft. I could say that underpaying people for their labor is theft. I could say that taking more than your share of natural resources is theft. You could say that anti-discrimination laws take away your freedom. I could say that discrimination takes away another person's freedom. And why should freedom be valued over human dignity, over justice? "Which is better--to have laws and agree, or to hunt and kill?"--Lord of the Flies.

 

[Rebecca12]

Maybe I should start caring less as well.

That is the last thing we need, another person not giving a rip.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Well, there are many different shades of libertarianism but I find it a philosophy of the privileged. (Though Von Hayek advocated having a minimum guaranteed income, which doesn't much sound like most of today's proponents of Libertarianism). You could say taxation to pay for social welfare programs is theft. I could say that underpaying people for their labor is theft. I could say that taking more than your share of natural resources is theft. You could say that anti-discrimination laws take away your freedom. I could say that discrimination takes away another person's freedom. And why should freedom be valued over human dignity, over justice? "Which is better--to have laws and agree, or to hunt and kill?"--Lord of the Flies.

isn't this becoming political debate now?

 

[ananda]

... why should freedom be valued over human dignity, over justice?

Because your ideas of human dignity might be different from my ideas of human dignity.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Its simple....were human. We grow up in our own bodies with our own experiences never really truly knowing someone elses life. Sure we can read about someones life or see it in pictures but we can never see every second of the day that they have seen from their eyes. Because of this we think what we believe is normal and right. And alot of humans have a hard time accepting when they are wrong. We are stubborn like that sometimes. So anyone who says anything differently, especially in politics., drives us nuts. We almost want to force them to see things how we do.

Now to add to that as christians we already have a set of views we have to obey. So when a non-christians doesn't see those views, we at first are like "God has rules! How can you not understand them?".

I try to stay out of politics. If I do get involved I don't stay in the conversation to long before agreeing to disagree the leaving. Especially with non-christians since I remind myself they of course will not understand my views, just as I won't understand theirs.

 

[Rebecca12]

Because your ideas of human dignity might be different from my ideas of human dignity.

And I find freedom quite a bit lower on the list of things I value than you do. So, you take away my values to satisfy yours.

 

[Rebecca12]

isn't this becoming political debate now?

A little. I am not even sure why. I am not especially interested in Libertarianism. So I am going to drop it. Especially as I am violating my rule of having fact based political discussions. It was a good illustration of pointlessness.

 

[ananda]

And I find freedom quite a bit lower on the list of things I value than you do. So, you take away my values to satisfy yours.

Not at all. You would be free to practice your values all you want. Just don't push them on me.