Political contentions

[AnticipateHisComing]

I dislike those who create poverty and division in society especially when it come from Christians.

Poverty is a result of sin in this world, you will no more eliminate poverty from this world than you will eliminate sin from it. You ignore Jesus saying there will always be poverty. Your church thinks it more important to serve physical needs than spiritual needs. Liberals blame all their problems on the rich, but they are just as greedy and want other people's money to solve their problems. How about the poor having a stable family environment so that one adult does not have to both support and raise a family?

And you think the Liberals are not spewing nothing but divisive rhetoric?

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Conservatives are self serving and tend to vote on what will benefit them, liberals tend to vote on what is best for everybody.

Such a naive thought that Democrats don't cater to serve what benefits themselves/their particular voting block, far from everybody. Case in point, the Affordable Health Care Act, aka Obamacare. It does not make health care better or more affordable for everybody. It makes it free/cheaper for 5% of the country, but makes it more expensive and worse for the majority of the country. You think this is not greedy?

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

You are so wrong here. Jesus was socialists through his actions. in fact he was probally the worlds first ever socalist and liberal.

You are so wrong here. There we both claim so, but at least I referenced scripture in my post to which you don't refute. Here let me quote something else from scripture.

2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat. 13 And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good.

If Jesus was such a purveyor of socialism, then why did it take 1900 years for social justice doctrine to infect the Christian Church? Has Christianity only now attained its zenith?

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Hilliary, Obama, Trump all liars but sadly Americans have voted in the worst and most socially destructive of the lot. Hillary is a saint compared to loony trump.

Hillary was such an awful liar and unpersonable as a rock that your so called loon beat her in long time blue states.

"When they go low, we go high". What a joke, what a lie. Oh no, the liberals don't resort to insults and name calling. And what did Obama go on about Trump whining about a rigged election? Remember that Oct 18th speech? The snowflakes have been whining about the Russians rigging the election for the last 7 months. As for crooked Hillary, the press ignore her collusion with Russia to give them our uranium while her and Bill got millions from them. Hillary a saint, what a joke, maybe of Satan. She would have only expanded the death of the unborn.

 

[Gnostic_Christian]

Hilliary, Obama, Trump all liars but sadly Americans have voted in the worst and most socially destructive of the lot. Hillary is a saint compared to loony trump.

Well, I know what you mean BUT... Hitlery hasn't had a chance to become president so we will never know. I cringe at the thought. She is the walking (uh, staggering) talking definition of psychopathy. If people only took the time to read about these criminals; drug running and using, prostitution, pedophilia, human slavery, same sex sex. NO exaggerations/hyperboles. I could mention books but what's the use? More than likely she has Parkinson's and that is why I think she wasn't allowed into the office. Although that is conjecture, the preponderance of evidence goes a long way. Connect the dots if you will.

This is what "voting" is:

 

[Gnostic_Christian]

Satan lied to Eve to deceive her to sin. A lie believed results in harm done. A lie ignored only results in judgement to the liar. So in politics where one lie can be believed by millions, harm is brought to millions. Do you appreciate how much worse deception is from just telling a lie? The worst lie is one that appears true, vs. a lie that is obviously understood as as false.

"Lies" are the umbrella group of falsities and deceptions. That is all. Yeah, I uh "appreciate" their sophisticated treachery.
Half-truths: lies are intersticed with truth so they're believable.
Obfuscations: Making something so complicated that it's not discernable. Try reading Black's Law Dictionary.
Censureship: They know it happened but they ain't talking.
Lies: Lies.

But I don't agree with your sophistry. A lie is a lie is a lie. It's objective rather than subjective truth. If you lie to someone, God knows you're lying. It does not matter whether anyone believes you, doesn't believe you or ignores you.

 

[The Brown Brink]

Such a naive thought that Democrats don't cater to serve what benefits themselves/their particular voting block, far from everybody. Case in point, the Affordable Health Care Act, aka Obamacare. It does not make health care better or more affordable for everybody. It makes it free/cheaper for 5% of the country, but makes it more expensive and worse for the majority of the country. You think this is not greedy?

I think it's misinformation.

 

[SteveIndy]

You made a very clear statement that "God would never call His children to serve in the governments". I quoted text that refutes your statement. You think you can negate the OT because Jesus came in the NT. Think again, God does not work that way. Jesus brought the New Covenant when he taught, but he did not abolish the law and he never said Christians could not serve in government.

BTW, an oath to serve in the government does not have to conflict with serving God, no more so than obeying the laws of government does not have to conflict with obeying the laws of God.

Do you not believe that Christ annulled the Law? I did not negate the O.T. Christ did. Taking refuge behind Moses is a very dangerous thing to do. See Hebrews 8:7-8, 9:16-17, 1:1-3; John 5:46-47; Luke 16:16; Matthew 5 "You have heard it said...but I say...." six times he quotes Moses then overrides him. There are other places in the N.T. that support my argument. The builder of the house has more authority than the house. Moses was a servant in the house whereas Christ was a Son over His own house. If this doesn't convince you then "The light that is in you is darkness."

 

[381465]

You can barely survive on welfare so i would argue against that it pays too much anyway. Sadly many people are not much better off in work and that has nothing to do with welfare at all. Plus you also have to factor in weather there are any jobs available to do. the captalist system loves and thrives on unemployment as it drives pay and working conditions down

Welfare should cover the basics of what you need to be able to function as a human being such as food, heating, clothing and a place to live.

With the exception of clothing, there are multiple social programs that do these things.

 

[The Brown Brink]

I don't understand why some people don't see politics for what it is:
A chore.
It's the chore of regulating behavior.

Some people demonize this chore, as if the chore itself were bad...

I don't get that.

Do they only understand "politics" from the Bible?
Do they only understand "government" as it is represented in the Bible?

Is the Bible their sole source of information about these matters?

How can they read "about" politics and "about" government, in the Bible, without first gaining a sturdy understanding of the words?

Surely, they must not know what the Bible is talking "about."

 

[Open Heart]

Politics is by far is the most contentious thing we could ever follow. The bible says that we should not fret when evil men prosper in their wickedness, so why do we fret over politics? Also, the bible teaches that contention and division within the Church is wrong. Why are we divided over politics?

I think we are much more responsible when we live in a democracy. We personally elect the men who form the laws and policies. Therefore we follow the issues more closely, and "fret" more. It only makes sense.

 

[W2L]

I think we are much more responsible when we live in a democracy. We personally elect the men who form the laws and policies. Therefore we follow the issues more closely, and "fret" more. It only makes sense.

I think seeking the kingdom is more important. We are taught to glorify God, and we do that by speaking with one voice, not voices from two or more political factions.

 

[Open Heart]

I think seeking the kingdom is more important. We are taught to glorify God, and we do that by speaking with one voice, not voices from two or more political factions.

Seeking the Kingdom means being responsible human beings -- loving our neighbor as ourselves. Since we ARE part of our governments in a Democracy, part of being a good Christian is taking that responsibility seriously.

 

[W2L]

Seeking the Kingdom means being responsible human beings -- loving our neighbor as ourselves. Since we ARE part of our governments in a Democracy, part of being a good Christian is taking that responsibility seriously.

That doesnt exclude the fact that politics lead to rival factions, which is a work of the flesh.

 

[381465]

If you want to vote, vote.
If you don't want to vote, don't.

 

[Open Heart]

That doesnt exclude the fact that politics lead to rival factions, which is a work of the flesh.

Oh please. Different Christians have separate brains. We are going to disagree. One Christian is going to believe that free enterprise is the best way to bring the most wealth to everyone. Another Christian will be convinced that socialism is the best way. They are both good Christians. They are both intelligent and educated. But they have been persuaded by different economic philosophies because they THINK DIFFERENTLY. So what?????? It's all part of having separate brains.

It seems to me that it's you that is wigging out over little things.

 

[NeedyFollower]

I don't understand why some people don't see politics for what it is:
A chore.
It's the chore of regulating behavior.

Some people demonize this chore, as if the chore itself were bad...

I don't get that.

Do they only understand "politics" from the Bible?
Do they only understand "government" as it is represented in the Bible?

Is the Bible their sole source of information about these matters?

How can they read "about" politics and "about" government, in the Bible, without first gaining a sturdy understanding of the words?

Surely, they must not know what the Bible is talking "about."

It is unfortunate that we need a constitution in order to love God with all of heart , all of our soul and all of our strength and to love our neighbor as ourselves. Laws are to keep the ungodly in check but those born from above know to love their enemies, to pray for those who despite-fully use them. When Jesus says to go make disciples of all nations ...did he mean to give us a vote or to teach us submission ? " Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven . Is there voting in heaven ? Does God truly take counsel from His own creation ? The Eternal and everlasting from the dust ? Thy Kingdom come . We are to be in submission to a King ?? Or is our spirit more along the lines of " We will not have this Man to reign over us . " I HAVE THE RIGHT TO ....what ? We have the right to live and die and face the righteous judge and even that was given to us ... unless a man chose to be born where , when and to whom he was born .
Because we have done something for two hundred years and it has prospered us financially and physically , does not make it right nor righteous. God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. As we are saved by grace , has man's system of government brought us humility ? Meekness ? Love for our enemies ? Created strangers and pilgrims ? Or are we a proud and full people ?
Paul said to mark those who cause divisions contrary to the doctrines you have learned and avoid them because such serve their own belly and not the Lord Jesus Christ ...many failed to do that in 1776 and consequently were drawn into much bloodshed and rebellion ( which is as the sin of witchcraft. ) Alas , we reap what we sow ...look for a spirit of rebellion eventually manifesting itself in this country of rebels ..you will see it in churches and in the population ..it will cloak itself in glowing terms such as " the rights of man " as if man created anything.

 

[The Brown Brink]

It is unfortunate that we need a constitution in order to love God with all of heart , all of our soul and all of our strength and to love our neighbor as ourselves. Laws are to keep the ungodly in check but those born from above know to love their enemies, to pray for those who despite-fully use them. When Jesus says to go make disciples of all nations ...did he mean to give us a vote or to teach us submission ? " Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven . Is there voting in heaven ? Does God truly take counsel from His own creation ? The Eternal and everlasting from the dust ? Thy Kingdom come . We are to be in submission to a King ?? Or is our spirit more along the lines of " We will not have this Man to reign over us . " I HAVE THE RIGHT TO ....what ? We have the right to live and die and face the righteous judge and even that was given to us ... unless a man chose to be born where , when and to whom he was born .
Because we have done something for two hundred years and it has prospered us financially and physically , does not make it right nor righteous. God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. As we are saved by grace , has man's system of government brought us humility ? Meekness ? Love for our enemies ? Created strangers and pilgrims ? Or are we a proud and full people ?
Paul said to mark those who cause divisions contrary to the doctrines you have learned and avoid them because such serve their own belly and not the Lord Jesus Christ ...many failed to do that in 1776 and consequently were drawn into much bloodshed and rebellion ( which is as the sin of witchcraft. ) Alas , we reap what we sow ...look for a spirit of rebellion eventually manifesting itself in this country of rebels ..you will see it in churches and in the population ..it will cloak itself in glowing terms such as " the rights of man " as if man created anything.

We humans must regulate our behavior...SOMEHOW...especially when we live in large groups called societies.

We have to control ourselves
...SOMEHOW..within these groups, in order to succeed, at all.
We need to govern ourselves.

We have a Constitution that outlines successful and unsuccessful behaviors for us in our American society.
Our ancestors who wrote the Constitution based much of those lawful behaviors on behaviors described in the Bible.

Were our people going against the power of God when they first wrote our Constitution, even though they used the Bible as guide?
Were they overstepping themselves when they voted to create a democracy?

Was it wrong for them to vote at all?
Should they, instead, have remained under the rule of a monarchy?
Should we still be royal subjects, instead of American citizens?
Really?

I don't get this argument against "voting" and against "government."
It doesn't make any sense.

I figure though, that people who don't vote can tell themselves they are not "responsible."
They think they're not responsible for their own societies, that they won't be held accountable for it...

I figure that's the heart of the matter.
Irresponsible citizenship.

 

[NeedyFollower]

We humans must regulate our behavior...SOMEHOW...especially when we live in large groups called societies.

We have to control ourselves
...SOMEHOW..within these groups, in order to succeed, at all.
We need to govern ourselves.

Yes sister ...I understand your concern and we have been lead to believe many things that seem right and true and good and according to man , they are . According to Jesus , we are to give to Cesar the things which belong to Cesar but to give to God the things which belong to God. We are not to despise government and according to scripture we are to speak evil of no man. For how can fresh water and salt water issue from the same stream (from James ) And even Michael the archangel when disputing about the body of Moses dared not bring a railing accusation against satan himself but simply said " The Lord Rebuke thee ." ( From Jude 1 :9 ) But Peter and Paul both said to honor the king ...( Nero was king at the time . ) Yes , taxation without representation was frustrating for the people who felt the need and felt that they had the right to be self governed but it was not in accordance with any scripture of which I am aware . Nor does it align with love the King ..nor love your enemies ..the early christians actually used to pray for Nero ...love does that . Actually rebellion is as of the sin of witchcraft . ( As satan was the first rebel and took a third of the angels with him , rebellion is a particularly odious sin . ) Now we have freedom of speech but as christians , we know better ...we are to put a muzzle on our tongues for they set on course the fires of hell . ( James again )

We have a Constitution that outlines successful and unsuccessful behaviors for us in our American society.
Our ancestors who wrote the Constitution based much of those lawful behaviors on behaviors described in the Bible.

Actually that is not true since Christians have no rights. We are counted as sheep for the slaughter . Even more , we are dead in Christ so that we may be risen with him. My ancestors are Jesus Christ , Abraham , Issac , Jacob , etc. My brothers are Paul, Peter , etc. They did not entangle their selves with things of this world. The writers of the constitution ( Jefferson , Madison , etc. ) were students of Locke , Voltaire , Hume . Many if most believed in a God ...George Washington called Him " The great architect " since he was a free mason and most if not all free masons also believe in a creator . But believing in a creator is not synonymous with being a follower of Jesus Christ . Satan not only believes in God but knows Jesus Christ. And Cain also believed in God and conversed with Him. Believing in God or "A God " is not the same as believing God nor is the same as trusting in His sacrifice .

Were our people going against the power of God when they first wrote our Constitution, even though they used the Bible as guide?
Were they overstepping themselves when they voted to create a democracy?

According to the reason of man , no. It was their God given right to kill their enemies although their enemies were also their brothers in Christ for whom Christ also died ..provided they killed them in meekness , love , pitifulness and compassion and provided it was in the name of Jesus and all for His glory . According to the the word of God who we know as Jesus , they were actually not supposed to do this . It is against the word of the Lamb. The successful rebellion against the King is historically what spurred on something following called the bloody revolution in France ...it was heartbreaking and most wicked . We are also told not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers . Why ? Because unbelievers agendas will be about this life ..about their welfare . Only a believer will forsake all to follow Christ , not having hope in this life only.

Was it wrong for them to vote at all?
Should they, instead, have remained under the rule of a monarchy?
Should we still be royal subjects, instead of American citizens?
Really?

It only depends if they actually believe what Christ taught , lived and instructed His disciples to do . Find one word about " The Way , The Truth and the Life in the constitution or bill of rights . We established a secular government by believers in a god but not followers of Christ. It was a subtle way of denying Christ .

I don't get this argument against "voting" and against "government."
It doesn't make any sense.

I figure though, that people who don't vote can tell themselves they are not "responsible."
They think they're not responsible for their own societies, that they won't be held accountable for it...

I figure that's the heart of the matter.
Irresponsible citizenship.

Nor do many people get it but you are right . I do not want to be responsible nor be a partner with bloodshed , violence , rebellion , atheism , greed , power , whether they be done in God's name or not . The name Cain means " To Acquire " . This is a nation of consumers ...the biggest in the world per capita by far. The American dream is not about freedom , it is about being able to be somebody ..to live the life ..life , liberty and the pursuit of selfishness . Sister , we belong to a Kingdom ...I assure you that we are to be good citizens in this world ..to represent Christ our King but we will answer to that same Jesus Christ as to whether we were good citizens of HIS Kingdom . And that is decided here . Is our heart here like Lot's wife or are our treasures in heaven ? Abraham told the rich man in the story of the rich man and Lazarus . There is a great gulf separating those who dwell where you are and those who dwell here . Love not the world , nor the things in the world ...why are not these admonitions put in the constitution ? Where is the talk about preparing us for the return of Christ ? The Strangers and Pilgrims part ? There is irresponsible citizenship and their heart is here . Do not believe me but ask the Holy Spirit ..even the spirit of Truth .

 

[The Brown Brink]

Yes sister ...I understand your concern and we have been lead to believe many things that seem right and true and good and according to man , they are . According to Jesus , we are to give to Cesar the things which belong to Cesar but to give to God the things which belong to God. We are not to despise government and according to scripture we are to speak evil of no man. For how can fresh water and salt water issue from the same stream (from James ) And even Michael the archangel when disputing about the body of Moses dared not bring a railing accusation against satan himself but simply said " The Lord Rebuke thee ." ( From Jude 1 :9 ) But Peter and Paul both said to honor the king ...( Nero was king at the time . ) Yes , taxation without representation was frustrating for the people who felt the need and felt that they had the right to be self governed but it was not in accordance with any scripture of which I am aware . Nor does it align with love the King ..nor love your enemies ..the early christians actually used to pray for Nero ...love does that . Actually rebellion is as of the sin of witchcraft . ( As satan was the first rebel and took a third of the angels with him , rebellion is a particularly odious sin . ) Now we have freedom of speech but as christians , we know better ...we are to put a muzzle on our tongues for they set on course the fires of hell . ( James again )

Actually that is not true since Christians have no rights. We are counted as sheep for the slaughter . Even more , we are dead in Christ so that we may be risen with him. My ancestors are Jesus Christ , Abraham , Issac , Jacob , etc. My brothers are Paul, Peter , etc. They did not entangle their selves with things of this world. The writers of the constitution ( Jefferson , Madison , etc. ) were students of Locke , Voltaire , Hume . Many if most believed in a God ...George Washington called Him " The great architect " since he was a free mason and most if not all free masons also believe in a creator . But believing in a creator is not synonymous with being a follower of Jesus Christ . Satan not only believes in God but knows Jesus Christ. And Cain also believed in God and conversed with Him. Believing in God or "A God " is not the same as believing God nor is the same as trusting in His sacrifice .


According to the reason of man , no. It was their God given right to kill their enemies although their enemies were also their brothers in Christ for whom Christ also died ..provided they killed them in meekness , love , pitifulness and compassion and provided it was in the name of Jesus and all for His glory . According to the the word of God who we know as Jesus , they were actually not supposed to do this . It is against the word of the Lamb. The successful rebellion against the King is historically what spurred on something following called the bloody revolution in France ...it was heartbreaking and most wicked . We are also told not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers . Why ? Because unbelievers agendas will be about this life ..about their welfare . Only a believer will forsake all to follow Christ , not having hope in this life only.
It only depends if they actually believe what Christ taught , lived and instructed His disciples to do . Find one word about " The Way , The Truth and the Life in the constitution or bill of rights . We established a secular government by believers in a god but not followers of Christ. It was a subtle way of denying Christ .



Nor do many people get it but you are right . I do not want to be responsible nor be a partner with bloodshed , violence , rebellion , atheism , greed , power , whether they be done in God's name or not . The name Cain means " To Acquire " . This is a nation of consumers ...the biggest in the world per capita by far. The American dream is not about freedom , it is about being able to be somebody ..to live the life ..life , liberty and the pursuit of selfishness . Sister , we belong to a Kingdom ...I assure you that we are to be good citizens in this world ..to represent Christ our King but we will answer to that same Jesus Christ as to whether we were good citizens of HIS Kingdom . And that is decided here . Is our heart here like Lot's wife or are our treasures in heaven ? Abraham told the rich man in the story of the rich man and Lazarus . There is a great gulf separating those who dwell where you are and those who dwell here . Love not the world , nor the things in the world ...why are not these admonitions put in the constitution ? Where is the talk about preparing us for the return of Christ ? The Strangers and Pilgrims part ? There is irresponsible citizenship and their heart is here . Do not believe me but ask the Holy Spirit ..even the spirit of Truth .

Last year, I read some research about differing world views.
It said that there are only two kinds of people: those who have a positive world view and those who have a negative world view.
I have a positive world view.
God loved the world.
Remember?
For God so loved the world...
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world...
Remember?

God loved the world.
I must, too.
And one way I can help God's world is by being a responsible citizen.

So I vote.