Political contentions

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Politics were ordained by God to be used by unbelievers to govern unbelievers. Christians are citizens of Heaven and are subject to a different constitution whose author is God and His document is the Bible. If we put ourselves under the rule of men then men will be our masters and not God. Yes, we do obey the laws of the land, unless they cause us to disobey our true King. There is no dual citizenship with God; it is either God or the world. Choose you this day who you will serve, as for me and my family, we will serve the Lord.

Bingo! Best short answer.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

In the West, "voting" is overrated, to say the least. Demos in "democracy" has long been rid of "cracy" if it ever had any. The true "cracy" is with the bunch that owns "chrimata" or money. Thus, what we have in the West is "chrimatocracy". Demos is just a beautiful facade, nothing more. Your voting means and decides absolutely nothing.

Then perhaps you should not vote. You seem to want to avoid getting involved in any way. Remember that all forms of government are imperfect; but we just may have the best existing today.

My vote may (or may not) mean something, but it is the one way I get to have my say. I also use internet and interaction with friends and neighbors. I can also use "chrimata" (money) to support Christian causes and candidates. But I won't say that it does not matter and go stick my head in the sand.

The Kingdom of God, of which I am a citizen, requires that I do all that I can to bring that heavenly Kingdom to earth. We even pray that in the Lord's Prayer. There are many ways that we can help this divine project.

 

[W2L]

actually, it' Satan that is in control of this world. I think what is being missed, or a better question is "what role should Christians take" in the society they live in. We are called to be "salt and light". I for one think we have become way to focused on light and offer up very little salt. If we (the Church) don't take a stand for God who will? WE need to be out there calling sin a sin, and calling people to repent. Hard to do if you just sit on the sidelines and watch the world self-destruct. The modern church has failed to stand up for God far to often, and now with Trumps recent exec order, the church can call policies, laws and actions sinful without the fear of the government shutting their doors. It's societies belief now that babies are not babies but choices, that LGBTQ(lmnopqrstuv- etc....) is now "normal" and needs to be accepted wither you like it or not and the list keeps growing. All while the church sits there, silent. I don't believe we will turn anyone to salvation in Jesus because of who is in a political office, but I DO believe we can help faithful leaders (Joshua anyone?) be put in place to promote Godly things and punish evil things. A bit of that Salt is much needed right now...

No one is sitting on the sidelines. We are taught to speak with one voice, not two or three. We are taught to pray as well. We are standing up for truth right now.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

God would never call His children to serve in the governments of this world whose Prince is Satan.

So just let Satan take over? Give Satan even more control? That is very, very wrong. The accommodation to sin is itself actually sinful. In my field, it is called the “codependent enabling” of harmful behavior.
<i>“Like a muddied spring or a polluted fountain is a righteous man who gives way before the wicked" </i>(Proverbs 25:26, ESV). The is a lot of wicked politics and cultural evil out there.

We are to do all we can to bring God's heavenly Kingdom to earth. We are in a state of war; so put on your armor of God (Ephesians 6) and get out there on the front lines.

 

[W2L]

Hi W2L,

I remember a teacher of mine telling our class, that "if you don't care about politics, then don't be surprised when politics begins to care about you."
When living in an autocratic society, may it be communist, fascist or whatever dictators thereof want you to accept any and all rule they established. Anyone who dares to question their authority or laws will end up in concentration camps for what they call 're-education'.
My best

I use to care about politics, until i started to read the bible for myself, and stopped listening to preachers man made traditions. I saw how contentious politics are, and i saw all the lies and deception involved in following politicians. Voting isnt the problem, its following politicians thats the problem. They lead us astray from seeking the kingdom. They seek american dreams, not the kingdom.

 

[W2L]

So just let Satan take over. Give Satan even more control. That is very, very wrong.

Such weak faith in God. We are taught to pray. Are our prayers not being heard?

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

I use to care about politics, until i started to read the bible for myself, and stopped listening to preachers man made traditions. I saw how contentious politics are, and i saw all the lies and deception involved in following politicians. Voting isnt the problem, its following politicians thats the problem. They lead us astray from seeking the kingdom. They seek american dreams, not the kingdom.

That is such a generalization. All politicians are not the same. There are in fact some true blue Christian politicians trying change things to fit the Kingdom of God. If you don't like the secular ideals of many politicians, then become a Christian politician. You may not get elected but you will be able to spread truth to the masses.

 

[W2L]

That is such a generalization. All politicians are not the same. There are in fact some true blue Christian politicians trying change things to fit the Kingdom of God. If you don't like the secular ideals of many politicians, then become a Christian politician. You may not get elected but you will be able to spread truth to the masses.

Fit the kingdom of God? America isnt the kingdom, and neither is the world. Politicians are not preaching the Gospel either.

 

[daleksteve]

Politics is by far is the most contentious thing we could ever follow. The bible says that we should not fret when evil men prosper in their wickedness, so why do we fret over politics? Also, the bible teaches that contention and division within the Church is wrong. Why are we divided over politics?

The problem as i see it is that we have too many Christians who vote for parties and support polices that at at odds with the Jesus of the bible.

Sometimes they forget they go to church every Sunday and worship a two thousand year old socialist named Jesus who came from Nazareth and spend the rest of the week oposing stuff that benefit the less well off in society.

My view is All Christians should be liberal and vote democrat.

Conservative Christanity nearly made me want to quit the christian faith for good. I have non Christian liberal friends who are more Christ like than some at my church.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Fix the kingdom of God? America isnt the kingdom, and neither is the world. Politicians are not preaching the Gospel either.

I said to change things to FIT the Kingdom of God. If your complaint is that politicians are not preaching the gospel, then YOU become a politician and do so. Those who gripe about things but do nothing to change them are actually working for the enemy.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

The problem as i see it is that we have too many Christians who vote for parties and support polices that at at odds with the Jesus of the bible.

Sometimes they forget they go to church every Sunday and worship a two thousand year old socialist named Jesus who came from Nazareth and spend the rest of the week oposing stuff that benefit the less well off in society.

My view is All Christians should be liberal and vote democrat.

Conservative Christanity nearly made me want to quit the christian faith for good. I have non Christian liberal friends who are more Christ like than some at my church.

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Wow. So leave Christianity. You do not worship Christ, you worship liberal politics. Jesus was apolitical. His Kingdom was not of this world. He said to render unto Caesar (the government) what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. Very, very little belongs to Caesar. Give out of your own pockets to the poor and needy. With your views, if you do not give to the point of sacrificing, then you are a hypocrite.

Coercing others to do so (taxes), managed by a corrupt government, creating a slave class welfare state, was never what Jesus said to do. Not even a hint.

 

[daleksteve]

Politics were ordained by God to be used by unbelievers to govern unbelievers..

The bible should not be forced upon people through politics which is what fundermentals tend to do, hence why we end up with racist loons like Trump.

 

[SteveIndy]

So just let Satan take over? Give Satan even more control? That is very, very wrong. The accommodation to sin is itself actually sinful. In my field, it is called the “codependent enabling” of harmful behavior.
<i>“Like a muddied spring or a polluted fountain is a righteous man who gives way before the wicked" </i>(Proverbs 25:26, ESV). The is a lot of wicked politics and cultural evil out there.

We are to do all we can to bring God's heavenly Kingdom to earth. We are in a state of war; so put on your armor of God (Ephesians 6) and get out there on the front lines.

Satan does not have to take over, he is the prince of this world, he is the deceiver of the whole world and of whole nations.If preaching repentance is "accommodating" sin then Christ Himself most accommodating. Nowhere in the New Testament are Christians advised to get involved in politics or to even try and change the world. We are sent behind enemy lines to lead the lost out of harm's way and not to make them comfortable in a wicked and evil land. By promoting involvement in this world it is you who are enabling a codependent behavior. We are promoting faith and dependence on Christ who alone is able to bring all things to completion, without our help. Where is the faith and trust when you, by political involvement, take matters into your own hands?

“Like a muddied spring or a polluted fountain is a righteous man who gives way before the wicked" if rightly understood is not a call to arms but rather the faith of a stalwart Christian preaching purity and righteousness in the face of persecution by that same political machine. By your definition of this verse Christ, Himself would have been a polluted fountain.

 

[daleksteve]

\

Wow. So leave Christianity. You do not worship Christ, you worship liberal politics. Jesus was apolitical. His Kingdom was not of this world. He said to render unto Caesar (the government) what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. Very, very little belongs to Caesar. Give out of your own pockets to the poor and needy. With your views, if you do not give to the point of sacrificing, then you are a hypocrite.

Coercing others to do so (taxes), managed by a corrupt government, creating a slave class welfare state, was never what Jesus said to do. Not even a hint.

Jesus may have been apolitical but he had liberal views. It occurs to me that you don't hold such views therefore your not Christian and rather makes you the hypercrite as the term Christian means to be Christ like.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

The bible should not be forced upon people through politics which is what fundermentals tend to do, hence why we end up with racist loons like Trump.

That sounds like the absurd statement that "you can't legislate morality." The problem is, ALL laws and regulations by every government and organization is the result someone's (or a majority's) idea of right and wrong. ALL laws reflect the people in power's sense of morality. We campaign and vote in order to promote what WE think is right. Of course, we do not all agree, so the majority (or close to it) wins in a democratic republic. If we do not campaign or vote (for whatever reasons), we are saying that morality does not matter and that we have no strong idea of right and wrong worth fighting for.

For example, I would never vote for a candidate who promoted abortion-on-demand. I know abortion to be a form of infanticide-- murder of the most vulnerable and dependent of all human beings. So I vote for those candidates who seek to outlaw it.

 

[daleksteve]

\


Coercing others to do so (taxes), managed by a corrupt government, creating a slave class welfare state, was never what Jesus said to do. Not even a hint.

What Jesus taught was that if you have more than you need then give it to those who do need it.

Taxes are needed because the rich tend to be selfish and self serving. The rich are the causes of the majority of social problems found in society.

You only have a slave welfare class cause non liberal parties create inequality and poverty in society with policies that allow the rich to get richer at the expense of others in society and so. [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] poor wages make it often difficult to get out the welfare trap.

The problem with non liberal parties is that they do nothing to ensure work pays for everyone therefore you have this class of person that is in a constant cycle of poverty.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

What Jesus taught was that if you have more than you need then give it to those who do need it.

Taxes are needed because the rich tend to be selfish and self serving. The rich are the causes of the majority of social problems found in society.

You only have a slave welfare class cause non liberal parties create inequality and poverty in society with policies that allow the rich to get richer at the expense of others in society and so. [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] poor wages make it often difficult to get out the welfare trap.

The problem with non liberal parties is that they do nothing to ensure work pays for everyone therefore you have this class of person that is in a constant cycle of poverty.

Coercion was never promoted by Jesus. We are to CHOOSE to give, not be forced to give. Forcing people is a form of fascism or governmental control beyond what government is for (defense, coordination, infrastructure, foreign relations, etc.), not creating a dependent welfare state which is what we have done. Communist states have a bad record of failure. Our nation was its strongest when entreprenuers and creative businessmen were successful enough to hire lots of people. When the economy was strong, the entire nation benefitted and the poor were really not very poor. The welfare state creates a large class of poor people by rewarding the lazy. Of course we should take care of those who are handicapped and cannot work, but that should be the responsibility of states and local communities (and families and churches), not the federal government. Our humongous debt (and the inevitable economic collapse which is coming) is what happens when the corrupt feds get control over these things.

 

[daleksteve]

That sounds like the absurd statement that "you can't legislate morality." The problem is, ALL laws and regulations by every government and organization is the result someone's (or a majority's) idea of right and wrong. ALL laws reflect the people in power's sense of morality. We campaign and vote in order to promote what WE think is right. Of course, we do not all agree, so the majority (or close to it) wins in a democratic republic. If we do not campaign or vote (for whatever reasons), we are saying that morality does not matter and that we have no strong idea of right and wrong worth fighting for.

For example, I would never vote for a candidate who promoted abortion-on-demand. I know abortion to be a form of infanticide-- murder of the most vulnerable and dependent of all human beings. So I vote for those candidates who seek to outlaw it.

Of course morality matters its just that whenever politics and religion mix you get some really nasty stuff.

Almost every country in the world that bans homosexuality execute gay people. Then of course teacher would have to teach nonsense in schools that the earth is flat and only a few thousand years old. When religion and politics mix the result is nearly always toxic.

In a country like America that thinks its right to execute people, religion should most certainly be not mixed with politics.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Of course morality matters its just that whenever politics and religion mix you get some really nasty stuff.

Almost every country in the world that bans homosexuality execute gay people. Then of course teacher would have to teach nonsense in schools that the earth is flat and only a few thousand years old. When religion and politics mix the result is nearly always toxic.

I would say that when you have politics without religious input, that is when you get the most nasty stuff.

 

[buzuxi02]

People need to travel more. There are reasons why millions of westerners become ex-pats in other countried sone of which are not democracies. It's not that bad.
I live in NY which has some of the most draconian laws and oppressive taxes.
I'm a car guy , I like muscle cars and customized cars. Yet when I asked and tried to repeal the anti-window tint laws which most of the populace would support , it was like I was a fanatic. In fact we have anti-constitutional laws. For example if at a car meet of hundreds of people, 2 cars decide to race the police can arrest all those within 60 feet of the road as accessories as if you were the one racing. The local laws here are more draconian than anything an autocratic state can impose. So to all mY fellow new yorkers, don't do me any more favors and stop voting in your favorite buffoons because they restrict my free-dumbs.