Police State New Zealand

[JIMINZ]

Meanwhile in other news, NZ was ranked #1 on the Human Freedom Index for 2019: The Human Freedom Index 2019

The U.S. in comparison came 15th (tied with Estonia).

What else would you expect with a population of only 4,783,063 as compared to 328,000,000

 

[pitabread]

What else would you expect with a population of only 4,783,063 as compared to 350,000,000

I dunno. I have no idea how population size factors in. Do you?

Oman has a population size of only ~5M but they ranked 134th on the list. Do you think they should be higher?

Or what about Kuwait? Their population is even smaller than NZ, but they're all the way down the list at #124.

 

[Occams Barber]

Meanwhile in other news, NZ was ranked #1 on the Human Freedom Index for 2019: The Human Freedom Index 2019

The U.S. in comparison came 15th (tied with Estonia).

I had a look at some of the detail of the results.

The Human Freedom Index has 76 individual criteria divided into two equally weighted components - Economic Freedom and Personal Freedom.

On Economic Freedom the US ranked 5th in the world . New Zealand was 3rd.

On Personal Freedom New Zealand was 3rd while the US came in at 26th place.

By the way - New Zealand, along with the UK, doesn't have a written constitution.

"The New Zealand constitution is to be found in formal legal documents, in decisions of the courts, and in practices (some of which are described as conventions)."​

The Constitution of New Zealand
OB

 

[renniks]

think considering the United States' fear of governmental powers, they have had good reason to be suspicious of it, but personally, these unprecedented times, the "freedom and liberty" talking points appear more like pandering and a lack of respect for their fellow neighbour who could be more vulnerable to the pandemic. That is why American patriotism falls rather flat when compared to other countries initiatives and priorities to keep themselves safe.

I guess " Give me liberty or give me death doesn't apply if there's a virus involved.
If they can convince us that it's all about keeping our neighbors alive, they can force anything on us? That's not liberty.

 

[JIMINZ]

I dunno. I have no idea how population size factors in. Do you?

Oman has a population size of only ~5M but they ranked 134th on the list. Do you think they should be higher?

Or what about Kuwait? Their population is even smaller than NZ, but they're all the way down the list at #124.

I would then say, the whole idea of comparing or ranking Countries against each other is useless then, wouldn't you?

What purpose does it serve, especially if you have no idea as to what it is showing you.

As you have just demonstrated with your post as though the ranking showed that NZ was better than USA but not knowing how or what it really meant.

 

[Speedwell]

I guess " Give me liberty or give me death doesn't apply if there's a virus involved.
If they can convince us that it's all about keeping our neighbors alive, they can force anything on us? That's not liberty.

"They" don't exist. It's "us" whether you like it or not.

 

[pitabread]

I would then say, the whole idea of comparing or ranking Countries against each other is useless then, wouldn't you?

What purpose does it serve, especially if you have no idea as to what it is showing you.

No, I wouldn't say it's useless. And I do know what it's showing me, because I actually looked at the report.

As you have just demonstrated with your post as though the ranking showed that NZ was better than USA but not knowing how or what it really meant.

But I do know what it meant because I read the report.

You're the one that suggested it had something to do with population size.

 

[renniks]

"They" don't exist. It's "us" whether you like it or not.

No, in our case it's the state governor who sets the restrictions.

 

[Tanj]

Are we really going to guibble over that, it's the only one that matters then isn't it?

That's...actually word. Sadly, it doesn't mean what it should mean, which for me would be a combination of gullible and quibble

Definition of gullible | Dictionary.com

 

[Speedwell]

No, in our case it's the state governor who sets the restrictions.

Is the Governor not an elected official? Is he not subject to the checks and balances accorded to the democratically elected state legislators? Have the courts in your state ceased to function? Is he not a fellow citizen of yours? How do the governors of the states become "them" and not "us?" When did "they" become autocrats who can "force anything on us?"

 

[kiwimac]

I guess " Give me liberty or give me death doesn't apply if there's a virus involved.
If they can convince us that it's all about keeping our neighbors alive, they can force anything on us? That's not liberty.

No, it doesn't. If it a choice between a loss of liberty and keeping those I love, my friends, neighbours and strangers safe I will opt for the loss of liberty.

 

[High Fidelity]

Don't know anything about American History, or why what your saying would be of any concern to Americans, do you?

You don't know anything about European (or your own history) if you don't see the disconnect between American paranoia from millennia past and how countries in Europe with, by all accounts, a very recent history of things warranting caution, not exhibiting the same level of paranoia.

 

[renniks]

Is the Governor not an elected official? Is he not subject to the checks and balances accorded to the democratically elected state legislators? Have the courts in your state ceased to function? Is he not a fellow citizen of yours? How do the governors of the states become "them" and not "us?" When did "they" become autocrats who can "force anything on us?"

So then I don't have to do what the governor says because I didn't elect him. The truth is, he should not be able to force anything on us, but has over reached his power, taking advantage of the situation.

 

[renniks]

But there's no such clear choice, only a lot of confusion.

No, it doesn't. If it a choice between a loss of liberty and keeping those I love, my friends, neighbours and strangers safe I will opt for the loss of liberty.

 

[JIMINZ]

You don't know anything about European (or your own history) if you don't see the disconnect between American paranoia from millennia past and how countries in Europe with, by all accounts, a very recent history of things warranting caution, not exhibiting the same level of paranoia.

Blah, blah, blah.

 

[JIMINZ]

But there's no such clear choice, only a lot of confusion.

There are those who continually miss that point, accepting whatever the Gov. says as Gospel.

 

[pitabread]

But there's no such clear choice, only a lot of confusion.

The confusion seems to be largely a consequence of the spread of misinformation (in some cases deliberate). In the case of the U.S. specifically, partisan politics and in-fighting haven't helped.

In fact, in every comparison I've read with the Canada vs U.S. pandemic response, the political divisions in the U.S. is a common theme for the U.S.'s struggles in that regard.

 

[Speedwell]

So then I don't have to do what the governor says because I didn't elect him.

LOL!

The truth is, he should not be able to force anything on us, but has over reached his power, taking advantage of the situation.

And if so, there are legal remedies for it.

 

[JIMINZ]

The confusion seems to be largely a consequence of the spread of misinformation (in some cases deliberate). In the case of the U.S. specifically, partisan politics and in-fighting haven't helped.

In fact, in every comparison I've read with the Canada vs U.S. pandemic response, the political divisions in the U.S. is a common theme for the U.S.'s struggles in that regard.

There are so many of them to read, how do you find the time?

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Interesting the difference a few weeks makes to a thread.

In the US, there are armoured cars in the streets, cities are under curfew and police and national guard are attacking members of the press and public.

Meanwhile, supposedly "police state" New Zealand has eliminated COVID for now, and has therefore removed all COVID-related restrictions.

New Zealand drops Covid-19 restrictions after nation declared 'virus-free'

Time for a "Police State USA" thread.