Police State New Zealand

[kiwimac]

A Police State is much better when it is shared with a crowed isn't it?

But then again you aren't allowed to have a crowed in a Police State are you?

And the crowds are working so well for you in the US, eh?

 

[Abraxos]

I think Jacinda Ardern has done a great job to aggressively lockdown New Zealand for four weeks through an implementation of an alert system (level 1 to level 4, 4 representing a no clear containment of COVID-19); and I think the results speak for themselves on how New Zealand has dealt with the pandemic compared to say, countries that have yet to contain it.

At the moment, we have had 0 cases for a couple of days now, while also having 97% of patients being recovered from COVID-19. So, in hindsight, locking down the country fast and hard seems to have been working well for us as a whole, and now we are at level 2 (bars, gyms and tourism, etc, are open, though, social distancing is still required).

I think considering the United States' fear of governmental powers, they have had good reason to be suspicious of it, but personally, these unprecedented times, the "freedom and liberty" talking points appear more like pandering and a lack of respect for their fellow neighbour who could be more vulnerable to the pandemic. That is why American patriotism falls rather flat when compared to other countries initiatives and priorities to keep themselves safe.

Spoiler: Two videos on NZ's response and handling of COVID-19 compared to the UK and Sweden

 

[MyOwnSockPuppet]

And at the time they began these measures in April they'd had like 1 1/2 corona deaths on the whole island, lol

And oddly enough they've had about 1,150 cases and 21 deaths. Hasn't the US just passed the 100,000 mark?

 

[Chesterton]

And oddly enough they've had about 1,150 cases and 21 deaths. Hasn't the US just passed the 100,000 mark?

I don't know, I don't really follow the numbers. But the U.S. is not a remote island with a sparse population.

 

[Occams Barber]

I don't know, I don't really follow the numbers. But the U.S. is not a remote island with a sparse population.

With a population around 5,000,000 New Zealand is no more 'sparse' than most Scandinavian countries. It may be 'remote' to you but I can practically see it from my backyard.

After allowing for population difference the US has 77 times more deaths than New Zealand. Like it or not NZ has done better than the US when it comes to saving the lives of it's people.

New Zealanders are not uncomfortable with their lockdown rules. You need to accept that your culture does not set the moral standard for the rest of the world.

OB

 

[High Fidelity]

What is up with the unhealthy American obsession with the government turning tyrannical?

This whole scenario has highlighted once again the inherent selfishness of many Americans. The idea of the greater good is entirely lost on most of them as well.

Heck, even countries like Germany and others in Europe, you know, countries with actual living witnesses to governments overstepping and controlling parts of the population, don't have the same obsessive paranoia about government.

I guess the NRA propaganda machine is working as intended.

 

[Chesterton]

With a population around 5,000,000 New Zealand is no more 'sparse' than most Scandinavian countries.

Which is sparse compared to the U.S. which are what you're comparing it to. The U.S. have 54 cities which are more populous than New Zealand's second largest.

It may be 'remote' to you but I can practically see it from my backyard.

Um, no. Sarah Palin has a better chance of seeing Russia from her doorstep.

After allowing for population difference the US has 77 times more deaths than New Zealand. Like it or not NZ has done better than the US when it comes to saving the lives of it's people.

There's a rumor going around that some of those deaths due to coronavirus may have actually been deaths due to coronavirus.

New Zealanders are not uncomfortable with their lockdown rules.

Why do Aussies on here always have to insult Kiwis?

You need to accept that your culture does not set the moral standard for the rest of the world.

Actually, we were the first nation in the modern world to have a written constitution, which helps prevent a police state. Pretty much every nation's imitated that.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Actually, we were the first nation in the modern world to have a written constitution, which helps prevent a police state.

Americans can't even get out of their car or pick up something in their car at a traffic stop without risking being shot.

Anatomy of a Traffic Stop

• Shut off the engine and turn off the radio.
• Keep your hands on the steering wheel and/or out of your pockets.
• When asked for registration and driver's license, inform the officer where in the car you need to find it.

From a government website - Anatomy of a Traffic Stop | Traffic Division | The City of Portland, Oregon

I have no problem with some serious oversight of police powers like the ones in the article. But seriously, most of the world would rather be stopped by NZ police than the ones in the US.

 

[jacks]

I have received exactly one ticket in my life...it was in New Zealand. The situation is the speed went from 60 to 25 as your rounded a corner. (You would literally have to slam on the breaks to make the 25 limit.) There was a large turnout where the police were hanging out with the radar. They pulled over every rental car. I tried to fight it, but to no avail. Now while I don't think this was a "Police State" it did seem a little 3rd world gouging to me. Like their airport departure tax, (This was 10 years ago, don't know what they are doing now.) "you want to leave it's going to cost you!" That said, it was a wonderful country and I would gladly go back.

 

[Gene2memE]

Actually, we were the first nation in the modern world to have a written constitution,

England, Sweden and Corsica all beat the US to written constitutions. The US Constitution could be said to be the oldest surviving constitution.

which helps prevent a police state.

Except where is doesn't. North Korea has a constitution, as did Soviet Russia, and Fascist Italy and Germany. A poorly written constitution, such as Wiemar Germany's, could even be said to enable a police state.

Pretty much every nation's imitated that.

And the US constitution itself was modeled on a series of documents, including the various colonial constitutions, the array of English constitutional documents and even Greek and Roman 'constitutions'.

 

[Tanj]

Why do Aussies on here always have to insult Kiwis?

It's a constitutional requirement.

 

[kiwimac]

It's a constitutional requirement.

Just like it is mandated by the NZ Bill of Rights for kiwis to insult Ockers!

 

[Gene2memE]

Just like it is mandated by the NZ Bill of Rights for kiwis to insult Ockers!

To be fair, the majority of the time we deserve it.

Also, if you could let us win the Rugby once in a while, that would be nice. In exchange, I'll offer you trans-Tasman victories in the Cricket (20/20 and 50 overs, not the tests) and the Netball. And yes, I don't care about the League.

 

[Chesterton]

Americans can't even get out of their car or pick up something in their car at a traffic stop without risking being shot.

From a government website - Anatomy of a Traffic Stop | Traffic Division | The City of Portland, Oregon

I have no problem with some serious oversight of police powers like the ones in the article. But seriously, most of the world would rather be stopped by NZ police than the ones in the US.

I agree we do have a problem with police behavior but that's a huge exaggeration, and anyway, individual cops behaving badly is not what defines a police state.

 

[Chesterton]

England, Sweden and Corsica all beat the US to written constitutions. The US Constitution could be said to be the oldest surviving constitution.

Well, I said first in the "modern" world.

Except where is doesn't. North Korea has a constitution, as did Soviet Russia, and Fascist Italy and Germany. A poorly written constitution, such as Wiemar Germany's, could even be said to enable a police state.

Obviously, a constitution written by a police state has no interest in preventing a police state.

And the US constitution itself was modeled on a series of documents, including the various colonial constitutions, the array of English constitutional documents and even Greek and Roman 'constitutions'.

Which makes no difference to my point.

 

[JIMINZ]

You need to accept that your culture does not set the moral standard for the rest of the world.

It doesn't?

 

[JIMINZ]

What is up with the unhealthy American obsession with the government turning tyrannical?

This whole scenario has highlighted once again the inherent selfishness of many Americans. The idea of the greater good is entirely lost on most of them as well.

Heck, even countries like Germany and others in Europe, you know, countries with actual living witnesses to governments overstepping and controlling parts of the population, don't have the same obsessive paranoia about government.

I guess the NRA propaganda machine is working as intended.

Don't know anything about American History, or why what your saying would be of any concern to Americans, do you?

 

[JIMINZ]

England, Sweden and Corsica all beat the US to written constitutions. The US Constitution could be said to be the oldest surviving constitution.

Are we really going to guibble over that, it's the only one that matters then isn't it?

 

[JIMINZ]

England, Sweden and Corsica all beat the US to written constitutions. The US Constitution could be said to be the oldest surviving constitution.



Except where is doesn't. North Korea has a constitution, as did Soviet Russia, and Fascist Italy and Germany. A poorly written constitution, such as Wiemar Germany's, could even be said to enable a police state.



And the US constitution itself was modeled on a series of documents, including the various colonial constitutions, the array of English constitutional documents and even Greek and Roman 'constitutions'.

Who gives a flying leap, where it came from, it's the only one that has ever worked, like it or not.

We happen to think it's pretty good, works for U.S.!

 

[pitabread]

Meanwhile in other news, NZ was ranked #1 on the Human Freedom Index for 2019: The Human Freedom Index 2019

The U.S. in comparison came 15th (tied with Estonia).