Police shoot 13 year old who pulled BB gun

Dave-W

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Police need to be trained in techniques of dis-arming someone with a weapon.

if you rush a person with a gun - esp. a hand gun - it is difficult for the gunman to get a good aim.
 
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VanillaSunflowers

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Lets look at this in another way. A male wanted for questioning in an armed robbery pulled a gun with a laser sight attached to it from his waistband when stopped by police. And the armed male was shot multiple times.
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If he didn't want to be shot he shouldn't have pulled that from his waistband.
 
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SummerMadness

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Exactly! Just like Luquan McDonald should not have advanced at a police officer with a weapon; Samuel Dubose should not have dragged that police officer with his car; Marcus Jeter should not have reached for that police officer's weapon; Walter Scott should not have used that weapon...

Without any other information, the only thing that can be accepted is the official police story. Accepting that story does not imply truth, but we live in a world of innocence until proven guilty. Nonetheless, this is the reason why police body cameras are needed. In the cases above cameras and video demonstrated that police officers are human and can lie like anyone else. That may or may not be the case here, which highlights the important of body cameras.

What we can say is that this is an absolute tragedy that a child lost his life, regardless of whether he was pulled a weapon or not.
 
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Aryeh Jay

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Police need to be trained in techniques of dis-arming someone with a weapon.

if you rush a person with a gun - esp. a hand gun - it is difficult for the gunman to get a good aim.

How long were you a police officer? I did law enforcement for fourteen years and never heard anything as reckless as that.

Some consider suicide to be a sin so but please don’t suggest that others charge at armed individuals in order to disarm them, because that is suicide.
 
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Dave-W

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Never shot a gun in your life have you?
When I was a kid I used to hunt with my dad.

So I have shot .22s, 30-06s, 30-30s and 12 gauge shot guns. I even once borrowed a Japan WW2 army rifle of some metric size that I do not recall.

So yes, I have.
 
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Inkfingers

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Police need to be trained in techniques of dis-arming someone with a weapon.

if you rush a person with a gun - esp. a hand gun - it is difficult for the gunman to get a good aim.

You first...
 
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How long were you a police officer? I did law enforcement for fourteen years and never heard anything as reckless as that.

Some consider suicide to be a sin so but please don’t suggest that others charge at armed individuals in order to disarm them, because that is suicide.
Never been in law enforcement. But I have talked to a guy who was a body guard for the mob. After doing his time, he now teaches government agencies on dealing with active shooter events. "Run AT a gun, run away from a knife."

And many marital arts have ways of disarming a weaponized assailant. Those techniques should be commonly taught to LE.

Besides, 9/10 of the people who pull a gun will not shoot it. They are just using it as a trump card. And even if they might shoot a civilian, they would think twice on shooting a cop as it does not go well for them in prison to be a cop killer.
 
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VanillaSunflowers

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When I was a kid I used to hunt with my dad.

So I have shot .22s, 30-06s, 30-30s and 12 gauge shot guns. I even once borrowed a Japan WW2 army rifle of some metric size that I do not recall.

So yes, I have.
What's quicker? A cop say 10 feet away? Or a armed male pulling a handgun up and out of his waistband?

Police yell, stop! Put down the weapon.
Or, STOP! Show me your hands!
And an armed male suspect ignores the order , grabs the gun in their waistband that they've fitted with a laser sight, pulls the gun with the laser sight out of their waist band. Is that compliance? What does that look like to a cop? Who's hoping to question two suspects that fit a description of an armed robbery?

Had this cop been killed by a bullet in a real gun that this male shot, what then? What if that cop had tried to charge an armed suspect , wasn't faster than a bullet, and died. What then?
 
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Inkfingers

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Never been in law enforcement. But I have talked to a guy who was a body guard for the mob. After doing his time, he now teaches government agencies on dealing with active shooter events. "Run AT a gun, run away from a knife."

And many marital arts have ways of disarming a weaponized assailant. Those techniques should be commonly taught to LE.

That is advice based on guns can get you at long range (and such gives the shooter more time to aim) but knives cannot.

But rushing a man with a gun is still a foolish thing to do.
 
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WolfGate

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Exactly! Just like Luquan McDonald should not have advanced at a police officer with a weapon; Samuel Dubose should not have dragged that police officer with his car; Marcus Jeter should not have reached for that police officer's weapon; Walter Scott should not have used that weapon...

Without any other information, the only thing that can be accepted is the official police story. Accepting that story does not imply truth, but we live in a world of innocence until proven guilty. Nonetheless, this is the reason why police body cameras are needed. In the cases above cameras and video demonstrated that police officers are human and can lie like anyone else. That may or may not be the case here, which highlights the important of body cameras.

What we can say is that this is an absolute tragedy that a child lost his life, regardless of whether he was pulled a weapon or not.

Agree. While I have to admit I would not enjoy being filmed constantly at my job, what I do for work does not result in life and death decisions. Cameras would not end controversy in every case, but in many cases they would provide protection to both citizens and the police - protection from speculation and from citizen/police outright fabricating a story that covers them when they were wrong. They would also allow the police to learn visually from each other and analyze more effectively how to avoid tragedy where possible.
 
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What's quicker? A cop say 10 feet away? Or a armed male pulling a handgun up and out of his waistband?

Police yell, stop! Put down the weapon.
Or, STOP! Show me your hands!
And an armed male suspect ignores the order , grabs the gun in their waistband that they've fitted with a laser sight, pulls the gun with the laser sight out of their waist band. Is that compliance? What does that look like to a cop? Who's hoping to question two suspects that fit a description of an armed robbery?

Had this cop been killed by a bullet in a real gun that this male shot, what then? What if that cop had tried to charge an armed suspect , wasn't faster than a bullet, and died. What then?
OK cop is 10 feet away. Guy goes for his gun. the cop lunges. 5 ft gone already. Perp tries to aim. another 2 feet. By the time he gets a good bead on the cop, he is being tackled like a defenseless quarterback and is on the ground. If 4 or 5 cops lunge at him, he has to decide which one to aim at. Even more time lost.
 
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VanillaSunflowers

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Never been in law enforcement. But I have talked to a guy who was a body guard for the mob. After doing his time, he now teaches government agencies on dealing with active shooter events. "Run AT a gun, run away from a knife."

And many marital arts have ways of disarming a weaponized assailant. Those techniques should be commonly taught to LE.

Besides, 9/10 of the people who pull a gun will not shoot it. They are just using it as a trump card. And even if they might shoot a civilian, they would think twice on shooting a cop as it does not go well for them in prison to be a cop killer.
Oh, no, they should actually teach a far better course than what you describe.

This guy you supposedly know left out one hallmark of self defense facing a handgun.

Rush a gun; RUN from a knife
"Within reasonable range and assuming you are not similarly armed, you rush a gun simply because you have no chance of controlling it if you are within the range of the weapon, but outside arm's reach. Since you cannot outrun a bullet, you might as well position yourself so you at least have a chance of controlling the weapon and possibly disarming your assailant."
Before clicking "Source" for that excerpt be aware there is a graphic image of a knife wound. http://www.orlandokuntao.com/armed_assailant.html

Your friend is wrong. Rush a gun if you are not similarly armed. Cops are similarly armed.
 
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Dave-W

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They would also allow the police to learn visually from each other and analyze more effectively how to avoid tragedy where possible.
And it would give the perps who can get ahold of the cam footage what your silent signals are so they can read them.
 
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Inkfingers

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OK cop is 10 feet away. Guy goes for his gun. the cop lunges. 5 ft gone already. Perp tries to aim. another 2 feet. By the time he gets a good bead on the cop, he is being tackled like a defenseless quarterback and is on the ground. If 4 or 5 cops lunge at him, he has to decide which one to aim at. Even more time lost.

Cop takes .38 slug to the gut.

Sorry, no, pull a gun on a cop and you get shot. Its sad that this child acted as he did but in this world cops that try hand-to-hand against guns are going to end up shot cops.
 
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What's quicker? A cop say 10 feet away? Or a armed male pulling a handgun up and out of his waistband?

Police yell, stop! Put down the weapon.
Or, STOP! Show me your hands!
And an armed male suspect ignores the order , grabs the gun in their waistband that they've fitted with a laser sight, pulls the gun with the laser sight out of their waist band. Is that compliance? What does that look like to a cop? Who's hoping to question two suspects that fit a description of an armed robbery?

Had this cop been killed by a bullet in a real gun that this male shot, what then? What if that cop had tried to charge an armed suspect , wasn't faster than a bullet, and died. What then?

Tueller Drill indicates that 21 feet is the typical distance where a knife attacker can stab someone who has a holstered gun before the person can remove the gun and shoot them. So depending on how quickly they saw the gun being pulled from a waistband, you could expect them to get there first if somewhere inside of 20 feet. Having to react to the other person's action, your 10 feet may be a reasonable guess.
 
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