Police Reform?

Jake Arsenal

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When on-duty LEOs abuse citizens, there is no justice available. Punishment of the individual is not justice because the officer brings down the full weight of government on the victim, and the government is not held accountable.

LEOs should be held to a higher standard, but qualified immunity holds them to a lower standard.

Blessed are we who trust to God for justice and mercy.
 

GOD Shines Forth!

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LEOs should be held to a higher standard, but qualified immunity holds them to a lower standard.

This is just my opinion:

God seems to mostly defer the judgment due to rulers and officials.

Rulers and officials who abused their positions will be judged catastrophically at the Judgment (assuming they are unbelievers). Some are judged here and now, but how many? They seem to be protected.
 
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disciple Clint

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When on-duty LEOs abuse citizens, there is no justice available. Punishment of the individual is not justice because the officer brings down the full weight of government on the victim, and the government is not held accountable.

LEOs should be held to a higher standard, but qualified immunity holds them to a lower standard.

Blessed are we who trust to God for justice and mercy.
I would disagree with your assumptions. Can you support them?
 
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JimR-OCDS

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When on-duty LEOs abuse citizens, there is no justice available. Punishment of the individual is not justice because the officer brings down the full weight of government on the victim, and the government is not held accountable.

LEOs should be held to a higher standard, but qualified immunity holds them to a lower standard.

Blessed are we who trust to God for justice and mercy.

Abuse today is often confused with a cop in a violent struggle with a suspect.

If there is a way to arrest a violent suspect without the use of force, tell us how that is done.

Apparently the police are too stupid to know how according to many today.
 
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The Lone Ranger

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When on-duty LEOs abuse citizens, there is no justice available. Punishment of the individual is not justice because the officer brings down the full weight of government on the victim, and the government is not held accountable.

LEOs should be held to a higher standard, but qualified immunity holds them to a lower standard.

Blessed are we who trust to God for justice and mercy.
There are good cops, and bad cops. Just like there is good, and evil in everyday life. There is no good, without evil, and vice versa. Praise God if HE gives you grace and discernment to recognize both. Blessed is the man who receives this.
 
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disciple Clint

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When on-duty LEOs abuse citizens, there is no justice available. Punishment of the individual is not justice because the officer brings down the full weight of government on the victim, and the government is not held accountable.

LEOs should be held to a higher standard, but qualified immunity holds them to a lower standard.

Blessed are we who trust to God for justice and mercy.
qualified immunity is the only thing that protects an officer from being sued for any imaginary injustice that anyone wants to dream up. It does nothing to hold to officer responsible for any illegal activities he engages in, that is covered by criminal and civil rights laws.
 
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Yarddog

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Abuse today is often confused with a cop in a violent struggle with a suspect.

If there is a way to arrest a violent suspect without the use of force, tell us how that is done.

Apparently the police are too stupid to know how according to many today.
Arresting a person who is violent by physically restraining is necessary, though many times the violent person wouldn't have become violent if de-escalation would have been applied first. There are times when police go beyond approve methods of restraint and violate civil rights. Those police officers costs their communities millions of dollars every year from law suits.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Arresting a person who is violent by physically restraining is necessary, though many times the violent person wouldn't have become violent if de-escalation would have been applied first. There are times when police go beyond approve methods of restraint and violate civil rights. Those police officers costs their communities millions of dollars every year from law suits.

Your experience arresting a violent person is what ?

The majority of cases, the person became violent, tried to run or even kill the cop with his car.

So, you tell us how a cop is suppose to handle the situation ?
 
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The Lone Ranger

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This is just my opinion:

God seems to mostly defer the judgment due to rulers and officials.

Rulers and officials who abused their positions will be judged catastrophically at the Judgment (assuming they are unbelievers). Some are judged here and now, but how many? They seem to be protected.
God chastises those He loves. When you know the guilty on a personal basis, you will discover the curse.
 
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Yarddog

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Your experience arresting a violent person is what ?
My uncle was a career law enforcement officer. My childhood buddy was a career law enforcement officer. My brother- in-law was a career law enforcement officer, as was my neighbor, and his son is one now.

I spent my early years on the wrong side of the law and am lucky not to have spent time in Federal Prison. I spent years as a bouncer, where I worked with dozens of off duty police officers and sheriff's deputies and van say they caused more harm than they stopped, though some were pretty good.

As a wrestler, I know how to take someone down but it is easier to talk someone down than to physically take them down.

My nephew is also a career MP and we talk about police tactics and they need to improve.

Most cops are good people but aren't trained well enough. I've only been stopped by two bad cops but thankfully dropping my uncle's name ended their aggression.
So, you tell us how a cop is suppose to handle the situation ?
Don't shoot unarmed people. Talk with respect. If one needs to physically subdue someone, cuff them and hand and foot, if necessary and then let them sit in a comfortable position and talk to them calmly.

If deadly force is necessary, then be prepared to truthfully explain ones actions.
 
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tulc

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There are good cops, and bad cops. (snip)
...if the "99 good cops" don't stand against and deal with the "1 bad cop" there aren't "99 good cops" there are "100 bad cops".
tulc(just a thought)
 
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JimR-OCDS

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My uncle was a career law enforcement officer. My childhood buddy was a career law enforcement officer. My brother- in-law was a career law enforcement officer, as was my neighbor, and his son is one now.

I spent my early years on the wrong side of the law and am lucky not to have spent time in Federal Prison. I spent years as a bouncer, where I worked with dozens of off duty police officers and sheriff's deputies and van say they caused more harm than they stopped, though some were pretty good.

As a wrestler, I know how to take someone down but it is easier to talk someone down than to physically take them down.

My nephew is also a career MP and we talk about police tactics and they need to improve.

Most cops are good people but aren't trained well enough. I've only been stopped by two bad cops but thankfully dropping my uncle's name ended their aggression.

Don't shoot unarmed people. Talk with respect. If one needs to physically subdue someone, cuff them and hand and foot, if necessary and then let them sit in a comfortable position and talk to them calmly.

If deadly force is necessary, then be prepared to truthfully explain ones actions.

Well you know lots of people who work in law enforcement, but have no experience yourself in taking down a violent person who's trying to injure you or kill you in order to get away.

I worked with the MP's a little in the Marine Corps over in Okinawa, and saw the difficulty in dealing with a powerful drunk suspect. I'm far from being and expert and leave that up to those who are.

Yeah, using reasoning can work, but it sometimes doesn't and what we see on the news are the cases where it hasn't worked.

You say the cops need better training, perhaps that's true. On the other hand, most civilians have no idea about what it takes to arrest a person who is fighting back, never mind just being difficult.

I want the cops to have all the advantage. There are those who want the cops to engage in a fair fight with the violent suspect and if the cop loses, well, that must mean the thug was right.
 
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Yarddog

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Well you know lots of people who work in law enforcement, but have no experience yourself in taking down a violent person who's trying to injure you or kill you in order to get away.
I guess that you didn't read my post very well. I was a bouncer. I had to subdue drunks, which included soldiers from the near by Army base. A few who thought that they were bad. I had to subdue off duty cops, as well, that got out of hand. I was very good at my job but de-escalation was the best method in keeping the crowd happy and getting drunks or hot heads out and into the waiting arms of police who were waiting outside.
You say the cops need better training, perhaps that's true.
Cops say cops need better training.
On the other hand, most civilians have no idea about what it takes to arrest a person who is fighting back, never mind just being difficult.
I agree.
I want the cops to have all the advantage. There are those who want the cops to engage in a fair fight with the violent suspect and if the cop loses, well, that must mean the thug was right.
I want cops to have what it takes to be peace officers. Many times the offender bears all of the blame for how police respond but sometimes cops bear all of the blame for escalating an other wise peaceful stop into w violent arrest. Those are the stops which need to cease.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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I guess that you didn't read my post very well. I was a bouncer. I had to subdue drunks, which included soldiers from the near by Army base. A few who thought that they were bad. I had to subdue off duty cops, as well, that got out of hand. I was very good at my job but de-escalation was the best method in keeping the crowd happy and getting drunks or hot heads out and into the waiting arms of police who were waiting outside.

Cops say cops need better training.

I agree.

I want cops to have what it takes to be peace officers. Many times the offender bears all of the blame for how police respond but sometimes cops bear all of the blame for escalating an other wise peaceful stop into w violent arrest. Those are the stops which need to cease.

Having worked as a bouncer means you're big enough to intimidate and subdue drunks.

Cops don't have that luxury. Many cops are smaller than the thugs they're trying to arrest. In fact, a kid I use to beat at wrestling in HS, became a cop. He got the crap beat out of him by a huge guy he had stopped in a traffic violation. That news led me to not pursue my desire to become a cop after I got out of the Marines.

You're right that SOMETIMES, the cop bears all the blame. But the media and the response by society is making it look like it's all cops. Defund the police became a reality in some locals, and now there's a problem with low enrollment of men into the police academies across the nation. If it continues, communities will first experience no cops and then they'll cry for safety which opens the door for tyranny.

It's all part of the cycle of nations.

The Cycle of Nations:

From bondage to spiritual faith.
From spiritual faith to great courage. From courage to liberty.
From liberty to abundance. From abundance to selfishness.
From selfishness to complacency.
From complacency to apathy.
From apathy to dependency.
From dependency back again into bondage.

Where we are in this cycle is debatable, but in my opinion, we are somewhere between apathy and dependency and close to moving toward bondage.
 
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Yarddog

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Having worked as a bouncer means you're big enough to intimidate and subdue drunks.[\quote]

I was 6 ft. 180 lbs. No more than the average male that came in. You subdue by skill set, not size, though size helps in intimidation.

Defund the police became a reality in some locals, and now there's a problem with low enrollment of men into the police academies across the nation. If it continues, communities will first experience no cops and then they'll cry for safety which opens the door for tyranny.

Increases in Police budgets many times comes by defunding inner city projects. Last year and the year before, the Police Dept budget increased by $500,000 while the budget for inner city community centers was cut by the same amount. I'm not sure how far back that trend holds up but one trend which has held up is homicide increases, as inner city budgets are slashed. We were hitting lows in violent crime until the city started cutting the budget for the inner city

This thing won't allow me to place quotes properly. Sorry
 
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JimR-OCDS

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This thing won't allow me to place quotes properly. Sorry

If size didn't matter but skill alone, there wouldn't be weight classes in boxing and MMA.

6ft 180 is not a small man and yes, you have the advantage of throwing the disruptive person out of the bar. You can also do things a cop can't and I've seen bouncers take a unruly patron out into the back alley to show him that he needed to leave. :D

Also, cops today get involved with violent people far more than bouncers do and they often have to make an arrest of a person among a hostile crowd watching and gearing the cop. A friend of mine had to make an arrest of a Puerto Rican guy who had just assaulted him as a war between two Latino Groups was about to break out. He was responsible for keeping both sides at bay when he was assaulted by one guy. As he was trying to place the cuffs on the guy when he heard, "lets get him!" Luckily the leader of the other group intervened and stopped the mob yelling, "no, he's one of the good cops." His backup arrived right after and the rumble was stopped.

My uncle was a cop and I tried to become one after I got out of the Marines. But Judge Garrity placed a hold on civil service exams because blacks were not passing in high enough numbers. So, he forced the departments to hire 300 black cops who had failed the civil service exam. In other words, he put guns into the hands of those who weren't smart enough to pass a simple test. It turned into a disaster for the departments and most of those cops didn't last a year on the job.

Anyway. I wasn't big enough anyway and the State Police had a requirement that applicants had to be 5'9". I was 5' 8". Today, they have to hire anyone who applies, even small women.
 
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