Police experts condemn knee restraint

[Mountainmanbob]

Police, experts condemn knee restraint used on George Floyd

Police around the nation and law enforcement experts on Thursday broadly condemned the way George Floyd, who died in Minneapolis police custody this week, was restrained by an officer who dug his knee into the man's neck, saying no circumstances warrant such a dangerous technique.

Deeply disturbing video shot by a bystander shows Floyd handcuffed, lying on his stomach and seemingly subdued as the officer trying to arrest him pressed his knee down on Floyd's neck for nearly eight minutes.

Some police officials and experts said equally shocking was something not seen in the video: Other officers on the scene apparently did not try to intervene even as Floyd repeatedly cried out that he couldn't breathe and moaned in pain.

“Any officer who abuses their power or stands by and allows it to happen does not deserve to wear the badge, period,” Chicago Police Superintendent David O. Brown said.

 

[Radagast]

Police around the nation and law enforcement experts on Thursday broadly condemned the way George Floyd, who died in Minneapolis police custody this week, was restrained by an officer who dug his knee into the man's neck, saying no circumstances warrant such a dangerous technique.

Deeply disturbing video shot by a bystander shows Floyd handcuffed, lying on his stomach and seemingly subdued as the officer trying to arrest him pressed his knee down on Floyd's neck for nearly eight minutes.

Police agencies around the country have been unanimous that policemen should never do this.

The important questions at this stage are: did the policeman do this maliciously? (in which a murder conviction is appropriate) or did he do it with reckless regard for human life? (in which case it might be manslaughter) or was he so poorly trained that he thought it was an appropriate technique? (in which case the entire Minneapolis police department may need retraining).

 

[disciple Clint]

Police, experts condemn knee restraint used on George Floyd

Police around the nation and law enforcement experts on Thursday broadly condemned the way George Floyd, who died in Minneapolis police custody this week, was restrained by an officer who dug his knee into the man's neck, saying no circumstances warrant such a dangerous technique.

Deeply disturbing video shot by a bystander shows Floyd handcuffed, lying on his stomach and seemingly subdued as the officer trying to arrest him pressed his knee down on Floyd's neck for nearly eight minutes.

Some police officials and experts said equally shocking was something not seen in the video: Other officers on the scene apparently did not try to intervene even as Floyd repeatedly cried out that he couldn't breathe and moaned in pain.

“Any officer who abuses their power or stands by and allows it to happen does not deserve to wear the badge, period,” Chicago Police Superintendent David O. Brown said.

This was a tragic event and I do not understand several things about it. The film we see on the news shows Floyd cuffed and escorted to the sidewalk all looks normal at that point. The next film shows Floyd on the ground beside a police car with an officer using a neck restraint. A later film shows two additional officers also holding Floyd down, that is three officers on Floyd. What happened between film number one and film number two that required taking Floyd to the ground and required three officers to restrain him?? Why when it looks like Floyd is being compliant on the ground do we still see three officers restraining him? The actions of the police officers is just way out of line and excessive force is obviously being used. I am at a loss for words to express how bad I feel about this.

 

[messianist]

Police agencies around the country have been unanimous that policemen should never do this.

The important questions at this stage are: did the policeman do this maliciously? (in which a murder conviction is appropriate) or did he do it with reckless regard for human life? (in which case it might be manslaughter) or was he so poorly trained that he thought it was an appropriate technique? (in which case the entire Minneapolis police department may need retraining).

Apparently this officer has had 18 previous complaints against him and served other suspension.

 

[Radagast]

Apparently this officer has had 18 previous complaints against him and served other suspension.

I don't know what happened in those 18 previous cases.

But you have to wonder why he was still employed.

 

[messianist]

I don't know what happened in those 18 previous cases.

But you have to wonder why he was still employed.

I know its unbelievable, I'm all for giving people chances, but 18 complaints and previous suspensions, it was only a matter of time.

 

[Radagast]

This was a tragic event and I do not understand several things about it. The film we see on the news shows Floyd cuffed and escorted to the sidewalk all looks normal at that point. The next film shows Floyd on the ground beside a police car with an officer using a neck restraint.

The charges against Derek Chauvin explain that (apparently there was bodycam footage that has not been released):

... Officers Kueng and Lane stood Mr. Floyd up and attempted to walk Mr. Floyd to their squad car (MPD 320) at 8:14 p.m. Mr. Floyd stiffened up, fell to the ground, and told the officers he was claustrophobic.

MPD Officers Derek Chauvin (the defendant) and Tou Thoa then arrived in a separate squad car.

The officers made several attempts to get Mr. Floyd in the backseat of squad 320 from the driver’s side. Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily get in the car and struggled with the officers by intentionally falling down, saying he was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still. Mr. Floyd is over six feet tall and weighs more than 200 pounds.

While standing outside the car, Mr. Floyd began saying and repeating that he could not breathe. The defendant went to the passenger side and tried to get Mr. Floyd into the car from that side and Lane and Kueng assisted.

The defendant pulled Mr. Floyd out of the passenger side of the squad car at 8:19:38 p.m. and Mr. Floyd went to the ground face down and still handcuffed. ...

 

[FireDragon76]

Apparently this officer has had 18 previous complaints against him and served other suspension.

It's not unheard of for psychopaths to be attracted to police work. It's common enough it appears in the psychological literature. Police departments may have to start doing more psychological screening.

 

[Radagast]

Police departments may have to start doing more psychological screening.

It's important to be sure what really went wrong. Some things probably need to change at the Minneapolis PD; only by being certain of what the problem is can we fix the problem.

Is it a recruitment problem? (recruiting the wrong kind of officer) Is it a training problem? Is it something else?

 

[disciple Clint]

I don't know what happened in those 18 previous cases.

But you have to wonder why he was still employed.

It would be important to know what happened on those complaints before we judge him. What was the nature of those complaints often times people complain about an officer not taking actions when, in fact he did everything that could be done. Citizen complaints can cover all kinds of things but if those complaints were about use of force then there is a definite problem. Without knowing the details of those reports all we can say is the 18 complaints over a 20 year career may or may not be significant.

 

[disciple Clint]

The charges against Derek Chauvin explain that (apparently there was bodycam footage that has not been released):

... Officers Kueng and Lane stood Mr. Floyd up and attempted to walk Mr. Floyd to their squad car (MPD 320) at 8:14 p.m. Mr. Floyd stiffened up, fell to the ground, and told the officers he was claustrophobic.

MPD Officers Derek Chauvin (the defendant) and Tou Thoa then arrived in a separate squad car.

The officers made several attempts to get Mr. Floyd in the backseat of squad 320 from the driver’s side. Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily get in the car and struggled with the officers by intentionally falling down, saying he was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still. Mr. Floyd is over six feet tall and weighs more than 200 pounds.

While standing outside the car, Mr. Floyd began saying and repeating that he could not breathe. The defendant went to the passenger side and tried to get Mr. Floyd into the car from that side and Lane and Kueng assisted.

The defendant pulled Mr. Floyd out of the passenger side of the squad car at 8:19:38 p.m. and Mr. Floyd went to the ground face down and still handcuffed. ...

So once again why do we have 3 officers restraining a man who is cuffed, prone on the ground and not resisting.

 

[Radagast]

It would be important to know what happened on those complaints before we judge him. What was the nature of those complaints often times people complain about an officer not taking actions when, in fact he did everything that could be done. Citizen complaints can cover all kinds of things but if those complaints were about use of force then there is a definite problem. Without knowing the details of those reports all we can say is the 18 complaints over a 20 year career may or may not be significant.

Good point.

 

[Radagast]

So once again why do we have 3 officers restraining a man who is cuffed, prone on the ground and not resisting.

I don't know. From the material I quoted, he obviously was resisting before he wound up on the ground.

I can only guess what the police thought they were doing, or what they might have been waiting for.

Nor is it my intention to provide the "case for the defence" for Derek Chauvin. Obviously there is such a case, though, and his lawyers will provide that case in court, and the court will decide how strong it is.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

It would be important to know what happened on those complaints before we judge him.



What was the nature of those complaints often times people complain about an officer not taking actions when, in fact he did everything that could be done. Citizen complaints can cover all kinds of things but if those complaints were about use of force then there is a definite problem. Without knowing the details of those reports all we can say is the 18 complaints over a 20 year career may or may not be significant.

I have met my son's lawyer who works for Project Innocence and she has represented ones abused and/or killed by the police and knows of many cases such as this one.
https://molawyersmedia.com/2018/01/29/legal-champions-cheryl-pilate/

Based on just what the video shows,
I say this cop is guilty.

My father was assistant Chief of Police in Tuscaloosa Alabama. He told me stories about cops such as this guy and shared with me that he did his best to get them off the force ASAP.

M

 

[disciple Clint]

I have met my son's lawyer who works for Project Innocence and she has represented ones abused and/or killed by the police and knows of many cases such as this one.
Legal Champions- Cheryl Pilate

Based on just what the video shows,
I say this cop is guilty.

My father was assistant Chief of Police in Tuscaloosa Alabama. He told me stories about cops such as this guy and shared with me that he did his best to get them off the force ASAP.

M

We have a justice system, we need to use it, not just for those that we think might be innocent but also for those that are almost certainly guilty.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Lawyer for George Floyd’s family wants charges upgraded

The lawyer representing the family of George Floyd said in an interview Sunday that he believes the Minneapolis police officer seen in the video pinning Floyd to the ground knew the victim and charges should be upgraded to first-degree murder.

“We believe he knew who George Floyd was,” Benjamin Crump, the lawyer, told CBS News’ “Face the Nation.” He said that Derek Chauvin, the police officer accused of third-degree murder, worked at the same Latin nightclub as recently as last year. The owner said that she was unsure if the men knew each other.

Crump said the two’s shifts there “had to overlap.”

"We think that he had intent based on, not the one minute, two minute, but over eight minutes, almost nine minutes he kept his knee in a man's neck that was begging and pleading for breath," Crump said. "George Floyd died because of the knee being shoved into his neck, and he could not breathe."

 

[whatbogsends]

So once again why do we have 3 officers restraining a man who is cuffed, prone on the ground and not resisting.

Being that the one officer had his knee on Floyd's neck (and the other officers on top of him) for several minutes after Floyd stopped moving shows that the officers in question had extremely poor judgement (at best).

 

[Radagast]

Crump said the two’s shifts there “had to overlap.”

If he can prove they knew each other, and prove that there was bad feeling or hostility, then I might take notice.

"George Floyd died because of the knee being shoved into his neck, and he could not breathe."

We don't know that. It might well not be true.

It's possible that George Floyd died from pre-existing medical conditions plus simply being on his stomach.

 

[BigDaddy4]

It's possible that George Floyd died from pre-existing medical conditions plus simply being on his stomach.

Well, it was reported that Floyd resisted getting in the police vehicle because he was claustrophobic. That can cause shortness of breath and chest tightness. Just having someone (or someones) on top of him may have exacerbated his phobia and contributed to his death. Still, the officer shouldn't have kept his knee on him for that long, if even at all.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

We don't know that. It might well not be true.




It's possible that George Floyd died from pre-existing medical conditions plus simply being on his stomach.

Concerning the knee on his neck
and his complaints of not being able to breathe
As Seen On TV.

When shown in court
time to cop a plea.
If not before?
Probably working on it right now?
M