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Plumber fiasco

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by Persis, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. Persis

    Persis Titus 3:4-7

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
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  2. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

    +7,818
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    In my country there is the facility in the Civil Court that a person can file a complaint with what we call the Small Claims Tribunal. It costs around $40 NZ to file the application, and around 30 days is given for the respondent to make a reply, then a hearing date is set in front of an Adjudicator. If the case is proved and the respondent is shown to be at fault, a Court Order is made requiring the respondent to pay compensation. If the respondent refuses to pay, he is then in breach of a Court Order and can be arrested for that and be brought before a judge and sentenced appropriately.

    We also have a TV programme here called "Fair Go" in which viewer's stories of unfair treatment by contractors and other business people are submitted, are investigated and the stories told on nationwide TV with interviews with the complainant and the respondent. Business people and contractors are very nervous about the adverse publicity shown on "Fair Go" that often disputes are settle rapidly once it is made obvious that the Fair Go team are involved.

    I don't know what you have in your country, and it might be worth checking out what options you have through your Civil Court or a similar TV programme you have there.

    I saw one TV programme, I think it was Judge Judy, handling cases like yours, and the programme presenter said at the end of each episode, "If you have a dispute, take them to Court!"
     
  3. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hi, Persis . . . I am Bill . . . pleased to meet you :)

    Memories coming back to torment us can indeed be how a demonic being is messing with us. So, first can be it is good to pray and trust God to make us so evil things can't have power over us.

    "Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

    Then in prayer offer ourselves to God about whatever the devil is reminding us about. And forgive. And check our own selves out, about how we have been doing things.

    I do not mean to tell you what to do, practically, about this situation. But I find it works best if I first submit to God in order to see how He pleases to rule me in His peace, then see how He enlightens me and encourages me and guides me. And first priority is to care about wrong people and pray for them, with hope for them.

    Also, in my case, I hold myself responsible to make sure with God about who I trust and how. And if I trust someone, I need to be ready to forgive however that person might fail.

    Even recently, I have been pushed by Satanic stuff so I have considered suicide in order to get out of a situation. So, yes I do get tested. I am not talking only from theory. If God blesses us with something, Satan might be allowed to test us with the exact opposite. And we can then trust God to do what He pleases with us.
     
  4. Robban

    Robban ----------- Supporter

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    It would have done no harm if he had informed you before he started the work that it may involve damaging surrounding woodwork.

    A plumber is a plumber not a magician.

    But then it is not possible for others to comment without seeing the damage.

    Looks like you are going to need a carpenter.
     
  5. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think of this > in case he really is untrustworthy and not competent, why ever would you trust and expect him to fix it right? I know someone who had a contractor, and the guy who was sent messed up the plumbing, I think it was. And she then insisted that that contractor take care of it. But I am curious if that is a wise thing to do. In such a case, may be it is even practical to just forgive it and keep the people away from your property so they can't mess it up any more.

    But if you have someone you trust and the person is very with it for things like this, I think you could do good to talk with that one. And in case this person knows the plumber personally and his work, this could help.

    It's like how in prayer we take things to God who knows more than we do! :)
     
  6. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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  7. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Unfortunately, without a good lawyer and an expert professional affidavit to the nature of the damage, I don't think there's much you can do. Even if you go to a magistrate, you will need more than your word against theirs.

    Maybe you can sue them for trauma induced by them not keeping their pants pulled up sufficiently when they leaned over?
     
  8. Robban

    Robban ----------- Supporter

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    If the plumber was replacing old piping,
    there would be joints and bends,

    removing these involves removing surroundings,
    to be able to get to them and replace them.

    It is a carpenters job to make good after.

    But he could have informed the one who hired him.

    Apparently the repair itself was successful.

    There are of course jokers, but the contractors should
    give good service to ensure future consignments.
     
  9. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +10,268
    United States
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    It's hard to tell what actually happened or how it happened from your description but probably the first thing to do is call your home owner's insurance company. They likely won't pay for the damages but they will have had people call them before just wondering if the damages would be covered, so they will know your area, likely know good contractors to do the repairs/companies that they work with, and maybe even the state laws that apply. They may tell you things to do, like taking pictures of the plumbing work that was done and the damages, get two bids from contractors for the repairs, etc. If you decide to sue for the damages you'll need these.
    Hope everything works out for you. God bless.
     
  10. Persis

    Persis Titus 3:4-7

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  11. Persis

    Persis Titus 3:4-7

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  12. Persis

    Persis Titus 3:4-7

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  13. Persis

    Persis Titus 3:4-7

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  14. Persis

    Persis Titus 3:4-7

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  15. Persis

    Persis Titus 3:4-7

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  16. Persis

    Persis Titus 3:4-7

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  17. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sorry, my man. I can tell you from personal experience as a building contractor and an electrical contractor, that damage does happen sometimes, and sometimes damage has to happen in order to complete the work contracted. At the point where the damage needed to be done, the sub should have talked to you, I'm guessing, though at this point I still don't know what was damaged.

    Also, though, more than once I have found that the further I went on a job, the worse things got, not because of any fault or lack of reasonable foresight on my part.

    I'm not trying to side with the contractors, only guessing, because it is a bit much to claim something was already rotten that you thought was pristine, if indeed it wasn't rotten. Most anyone can take a good look at it after the damage is done and make a decent judgement on it. That is why I suggested getting an expert opinion, before going to a magistrate about it. If indeed it is not rotten, and not by other weakness of the wood, you may have a case.

    I have found myself in situations like yours before, and I always made them come back and do over, if necessary, or fix what they broke.
     
  18. Robban

    Robban ----------- Supporter

    +1,676
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    Do you mean by "quote" a price for the job?

    It is risky to do so when it is about putting new into old,
    simply because anything can pop up,

    which can cause delay and more work than first reckoned with.
    In anycase done is done, not always a good idea to rely on a friend of a friend.
    I am not a plumber but a carpenter, building, repairs. interior work. (now pensioned)
    I would not take the risk of giving a price, not in repair work.
    But word spreads fast, if someone or firm comes on the blacklist,
    they are soon out of buisness.
     
  19. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ok, you have pinned me down to answer your question.

    short answer > I pray and get with God in His peace, then discover what He has me do. Every bit of scripture can somehow be used to help us with this. Feed on God's word, more and more, and see how God uses this, along with any good things of sermons and things your Jesus friends share with you.

    long answer >

    First, I might be very concerned that my way of praying and being guided by God had gotten me involved with these people. And likely I would not want either person on my property. I might be willing to take a loss, just so they would not have any more opportunity to mess things up. Plus, I might want to try to find out who is reliable, and have that person recheck the plumbing work which had been done. I would not expect to control the wrong people to do it right.

    And I would be curious about who my parents friends were, really, and if my parents were reliable in how they picked friends to give me advice. But the fact that I could be fooled by them all might mean I am my main problem. But, of course, may be the worker did better with my parents' friends. But I am not sure this is a realistic possibility. I would forgive whoever has turned out to be not reliable, and take responsibility for how I maybe have made them idols whom I did not question >

    "Test all things; hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

    And be wise to them, respectful and loving and appreciative of however God has used them to do me good, but now get more into relying on God. And see if I can find ones who are mature and reliable Christians who help me grow in Jesus.

    When I get in a major huff about stuff, this shows me I'm under the power of that stuff; and Paul says,

    "I will not be brought under the power of any," in 1 Corinthians 6:12.

    So, if I can get bent out of shape about what happens to certain things, this is fair warning to me, that I am under the power of that stuff. And so, this is my main and first problem to deal with, not just trying to control that stuff to go my way.

    "'He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.'" (John 12:25)

    I can lose it, emotionally.

    And so, God might manage things so my readiness to huff is exposed. And then I can pray for however He wants to deeply correct and change me so I am submissive only to how He rules us in His peace >

    "And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

    And after He restores me to be gentle and quiet and sweet and intimate with Him, see how He has me see things and what He has me doing with Him.

    So, I do well to not give in to how I might be effected by wrong people. But submit to God and how He has us being and living and thinking in His peace. And do not allow evil people to decide how we are. They will not decide that we will love and forgive! And this sacrifice will make us stronger and more creative for sharing with those who are close to us in God's love.

    So, may be you have an opportunity now to get more with God, so this can help you to do better in your family relating with others who are living in God's way of loving.

    But have hope even for wrong people > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).

    "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." (Jesus on the cross, reported in Luke 23:34)

    I notice how in this scripture, that guy next to Jesus trusts in Jesus . . . after Jesus has prayed out forgiveness.

    So, always be ready for love with any person, being any person's best friend by being his or her example of how to be with God and how to love, so that person can be effected by God's example which ministers deeper than words, in the sight of God.

    In dealing with various people and things, Persis, this is what I eat for breakfast and all through the day and when I wake up in the night not in delight about things going on in my life. It crunches the bones of my ego, bones I might want to pick with other people. It means suicide for my ego, but not for me :)

    Paul had that "thorn in the flesh" "thing" > the "messenger of Satan" > 2 Corinthians 12:7-15. And he begged the Lord "three times" to make it go away. But Jesus was not about to grant Paul some miracle of convenience. For this demon thing, Paul so great did not have the faith to make it go away. So, I would say he was in quite a problem with himself.

    But what worked? He had a little talk with Jesus, and Jesus said,

    "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness."

    And then was when Paul got the message of that "messenger of Satan". But he got the message from Jesus, not from how the Satanic being was communicating. So, do not trust what anger and rage and pain and frustration and unforgiveness are telling us and making us feel. Trust how God has us responding in His peace. Trust how God's peace guards our minds and hearts, including

    "in the presence of my enemies" (in Psalm 23:5).

    My enemies can be people in my imagination, memories, and real people who are are a problem for me. When I have a problem with someone, what works is I pray and trust God to correct me into how His peace rules me, then care about the person with hope for him or her, then be ready for love with that person, whether the person is capable of love or not. Be that person's example to help the person discover how to be with God and how to love. Be the best friend he or she could have, by being God's example . . . in a tie for first place with all the other Christians who are this person's best friend like this :)

    But in case you might want to pin me down to a practical answer >

    I might find someone who is honest and caring and expert, perhaps a nonprofessional who is a good handy-person, show the person the situation, and do what he or she has me do. It might be wise to take the loss, so I am no longer involved with ones who are damaging and maybe even dangerous.
     
  20. Robban

    Robban ----------- Supporter

    +1,676
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    :) the magician bit,

    Was reminded of a pretty big job I did for a Christian bookstore, part of a chain of stores,

    The manager though a great person seemed to think all things could be done in five minutes, more or less.

    He was impatient, thought then, "He must think I,m some kind of magician." haha.

    It went well, glad when it was done though.

    One advantage was customers who came into the store saw my work,
    so I got orders for new jobs, even had too no to some,


    One has to rest too. :)
     
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