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Featured Please Stop Saying "Replacement Theology"

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Tree of Life, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    And still no one has answered WHY they want to know all this stuff that really does not apply to them?
     
  2. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    I believe Paul is likely thinking back to Zechariah 12:10-14 where God pours His Spirit out on all Israel as they mourn for the one they pierced. It is at this point all Israel will be saved, not all Jews of all times.
     
  3. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    People are questioning you because your interpretation is very strange and has very unbiblical implications. They are asking you to justify your bizarre claims.
     
  4. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    At what point do Believing Jews STOP being Israel?
     
  5. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    My interpretation is based on this:

    Jeremiah 31:31
    “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

    and:

    Zechariah 12:10
    “I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.
     
  6. ~Zao~

    ~Zao~ Wisdom’s child Supporter

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    The whole land was alloted to all Israel but not fully possessed by them and will not be until the millennium when the Messiah begins to rule over the house of Jacob forever (Isaiah 9:6-7, Ezekiel 48, Zechariah 14, Luke 1:32-33, Revelation 11:15) All that God share to give to them was little by little until they would finally possess the whole that was promised, and even this little by little was based upon their obedience to Him and their own faith and aggressiveness to possess it ( Exodus 23:29-33, Leviticus 23, Numbers 33:52-56, Tons in Deut.)
    Commentary of fulfilled and unfulfilled prophesy from Dake’s bible.
     
  7. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    they never do.

    But at this juncture, Paul is not talking about Believing Israel, he is talking about unbelieving Israel.
     
  8. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    Even these passages do not explain how a Jew who rejects Christ might be saved.
     
  9. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Yeah - have no use for his views.
     
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  10. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Why do you need to know the "how?"
    No one knows that; and that is ok.

    God tells us what He is going to do.
    He does not owe us a "why" or a "how."
     
  11. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    I don't believe the texts you've cited in any way commit us to the view that all living ethnic Jews will accept Jesus when he returns. Neither do I believe that they even come close to suggesting that an ethnic Jew who dies in unbelief might possibly be saved. If they said something like this, then we might simply accept it without being able to explain it.

    But these passages have much better explanations that don't force us to go the bizarre route that you've taken. I'm pressing you in order to demonstrate that your views don't have any biblical justification.
     
  12. A Realist

    A Realist Living in Reality

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    claninja stated everything was already fulfilled. It wasn't. This is closer to the way the boundaries were at it's extent. And even this is probably not extremely accurate.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. ~Zao~

    ~Zao~ Wisdom’s child Supporter

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    You say that now ...
     
  14. His student

    His student Well-Known Member

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    While I could agree that the church is Israel and Israel is the church during this present era - your view does not account for the various promises of God to national Israel. That includes O.T. promises as well as those made in the N.T.

    The reason people call it "replacement" is because no provision is made for a literal ruling by Christ on the throne of David in the millennium.

    Of course - most covenant theology types would spiritualize what others (including myself) see as clear cut promises.

    It being the case that the Lord will rule the earth with a rod of iron from the throne of David - your rendition has Him ruling born again believers with that rod of iron.

    That's not the picture I get of the way He deals with the people in His church.
     
  15. ~Zao~

    ~Zao~ Wisdom’s child Supporter

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    Doesn’t Ezekiel 45:8 also speak of a future division? LOI11sec_001.jpg
     
  16. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Then why in YOUR POST #48 did you refer to them as "Ethnic Israel"
    How are you defining "Ethnic Israel" if not by DNA?
     
  17. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    It is replacement theology and the covenant idea you have half true. The new covenant is in full effect so we agree on that and for me to call your ideas covenant theology implies we who oppose the new covenant. Where we disagree is that the church has replaced Israel in the covenants so our term of replacement theology is appropriate. I have found that in all these debates no matter what arguments are presented that there is a certain prophetic destiny on the table the reply is always a series of concentric right turns down the same line of thought and then ends with that settles it. I have learned to eat the chicken and spit out the bones. I have seen great answers given on unrelated subjects by many who share your view so I can see that we have fellowship in the Spirit even if we strongly disagree on where we are at and what directions things will take prophetically. So I want to be called pro life but my opponent there will always call me anti choice. You will have to get used to the term replacement theology and will have to debate your covenant ideas down the road.
     
  18. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Judaism is unique in that it is both a religion and a physical people.

    If an African American or an American Indian or someone of Japanese ancestry were to undergo an orthodox Jewish conversion, they become part of ethnic Israel.
    No DNA link at all. But still part of ethnic Israel.
     
  19. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    Nice this is where we can can start to hash it out. I agree the LORD is king over all the earth but is not Jesus supposed to sit on David's throne? If you look at Zech 14 it says the LORD is king over all the earth. This is a special day in that Jerusalem is being overrun. The LORD comes with His saints and the Mt of Olives splits in two. A new valley are river are created and the river will flow year round. It says the nations who are left will be required to come up yearly for the feast of Tabernacles or they will get no rain. In Rev we see the angel proclaim the kingdoms of this earth have become the kingdoms of our LORD and His Christ and He shall reign forever. This in my mind makes the covenant position very weak. We see in Rev when the LORD is king Satan is bound, it says the nations who were deceived are no longer deceived until the 1000 years is over. The covenant idea includes the concept the Rev was done in 70AD and we are in the kingdom era. When looking at Zech 14 that Mt of Olives is not split in two that river is not flowing and the enemies of God are not melted. Daniel 7 shows the transfer from being under the rule of the pompous one and then after a time times and half a time of persecuting the saints the son of man comes and destroys him and his body is given to the flame and the rest of the beasts lose their dominion but have their lives prolonged for a season and a time.
    This is when the LORD comes and is king and Satan is bound for a season of 1000 years and released for a time of testing. These beasts never regain any dominion. When you start to look at this and think about it there is no way the nations have not been deceived in the last 2000 years. The future view believes God will perform his word. This is now a crossroads as Israel now is readying to be divided and prepared to resume the sacrifices. This is the stage for the man of sin to be revealed. The proof is playing out right now. So as much as we disagree on this stuff let us be united in being ready and laboring for the gospel.
     
  20. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said when he returns will he find faith on the earth. Things will get worse and worse and the idea of conquest and dominionism by man;s effort to present the kingdom to God is a joke. Everywhere you look the time the kingdom comes is a time of evil and persecution and is the day of wrath and judgment. You have been led to that conclusion.
     
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