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Featured Please Stop Saying "Replacement Theology"

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Tree of Life, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    And it is often said right here in these forums that when they started following our Lord, they ceased to be Jews and became Christians.
     
  2. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    Do you believe this means every ethnic Jew who has ever lived will accept Jesus? Many Jews in the 20th century have been atheists. Many Jews living in Israel today are atheists.
     
  3. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I challenge you. What are we to make of all the unrepentant Jewish people who have died? What good is Physical Ethnic Israel when all of their ancestors have passed and not believed? It is a slippery slope brother.
     
  4. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    They are applicable, but not in the sense that is sometimes suggested by the dispensationalist or messianic crowd. The right application of these promises certainly begins with the conquest of Canaan, but it will only ultimately be fulfilled through Christ in the total conquest of the planet through the preaching of the gospel and heaven coming down to earth at the end of time resulting in a new heavens and new earth. Anything less that this eschatological reality is less than what these promises ultimately have in view.
     
  5. His student

    His student Well-Known Member

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    DamianWarS said the following:....perhaps you should explain what your views are first before they are scrutinized into a label.

    That seems like a reasonable request since you also reject supersessionism which seems pretty reasonable.


    Covenant theology is rather ambiguous as you must agree seeing that you agree that most people don't understand what it means. Covenant theology obviously doesn't cut the mustard in so far as a title goes.

    I know you can't write a book for us here. But surely a brief overview wouldn't be too much trouble.

    Is your belief perhaps that Israel and the church were always the same entity? Please explain in a very brief way.
     
  6. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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  7. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    OF course they are. Currently.

    Every Jew alive when our Lord returns will accept Him.
     
  8. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    We leave them in God's hands.
     
  9. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    Ok I'll offer a brief sketch. Covenant Theology says a lot of things, but I'll limit my sketch to what I see are its most relevant teachings on this subject:

    The OT qahal (covenant assembly, Israel) is an equivalent concept to the NT ekklesia (assembly, church). Stephen in his speech in Acts calls Israel the ekklesia in the wilderness.

    The church is the covenant assembly of God. In the OT period it took the form of a nation - Israel. In the NT period it is scattered among the nations. It was never strictly confined to one ethnic group and has always been marked by faith in Yahweh. Yahweh always had all the nations in view, so though it was primarily composed of one ethnic group in the OT, now it is international (universal or catholic).

    So the church has not replaced Israel. OT Israel was the church in that period. With the coming of Jesus it has taken a different form. But it is fundamentally one body united to one savior.
     
  10. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    Ah. So you think Paul means that all Jews living when Christ returns will accept him. But this does not include those Jews who have died in unbelief before the return of Christ?
     
  11. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    As I said in post 68: Leave them in God's hands. We do not need to understand how He will deal with them.

    this is a "prepare for the worst" by presenting the Gospel in a Jewish friendly way, but "hope for the best," (God's mercy) on those unreceptive to the Gospel.
     
  12. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Matthew 22:1-14 = Luke 14:16-24

    Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 22:1-14, Luke 14:16-24 - New International Version

    Gentiles are the riffraff God invited in SUBSTITUTE for those who were at first invited initially but rejected the invitation.
     
  13. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ok, so you do not know.
    I do know.
    It is stated in scripture.

    John 3:16
    “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
     
  14. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, Paul does say that in Jesus "There is neither Jew nor Greek" > in Galatians 3:28.

    Also, Paul says >

    "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God." (Romans 2:28-29)

    So, from this I can see how God could have replaced how He has seen someone to be a Jew or not.
     
  15. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    Would you offer a similar hope to gentiles who die in unbelief?
     
  16. Foxfyre

    Foxfyre Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't think I have ever used the term 'replacement theology' but my understanding of the most common definition for it is a belief that the Church/Christians have replaced Israel/Jews as the 'chosen people of God.' So what term better explains those who believe that?

    The concept of my understanding of the definition of course can be legitimately debated--I personally don't subscribe to it myself--but sometimes a term like 'replacement theology' just like any other generally accepted term saves a lot of time as opposed to having to give a full definition every time it is used.
     
  17. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Many people THINK they know and have some kind of formula worked out.

    In 1 Cor 13 Paul said we all see thru a glass dimly, meaning God has not made a LOT of things clear.

    IMO That is INTENTIONAL, and we should be OK with it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  18. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Not at all. God had no ongoing covenant with the gentiles.

    But thru the Abrahamic covenant, the Jews still have one.
     
  19. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Referring ONLY to salvic issues and access to the throne of grace.

    It also says "neither male or female" in the same sentence but there are clear differences in scripture between the 2.
     
  20. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    I think this exposes a huge red flag in your view. IIRC you've said this explicitly elsewhere. This suggests that a person can be saved without Jesus and it's probably through something like "jewishness". This is just a denial of the gospel.
     
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