Please pray for iconographers!

ikonographics

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Every few months a new website pops up selling "high quality icon prints" at a "reasonable price" much to the joy of the faithful. What the faithful don't know is that the mere existence of these sites is destroying the art of iconography. Serious iconographers, for whom this is our life's work and our calling into which we put our heart and soul, simply cannot compete and many of us are on the brink of quitting because there are simply no commissions anymore. Soon the only hand-painted icons will be by Aunt Mary who attended a weekend paint-by-numbers course or the ones massed produced in China (yes, even in Greece they sell hand painted icons from China!)

Even worse many of the icons sold on these sites are stolen. It is hard enough for iconographers to make ends meet without people stealing our work. Most iconographers struggle financially. The owners simply download the icons from google (though their excuse is always that someone gave them the icons and they were told they are free to use them.) They never give credit to the iconographers nor do we receive any royalties. They sometimes claim to have searched for the iconographers but couldn't find them...so they posted the icons anyway. (My icons can only have been downloaded from my own sites where I sell prints and the metadata shows that I am the owner, so that excuse is invalid).

When we try to expose these sites we are inevitably attacked. After all these people are only "trying to make a living" ( from our work) and we are always accused of being "unOrthodox" and "unspiritual" for daring to make a living off our work. Iconographers are expected to live on the Holy Spirit alone, but the scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages." (1Ti 5:18 RSV). And there is the inevitable argument that icons belong to the church not to the iconographer therefore we have no right to make money off them (yet the people running these sites do!). But this is not true. The traditional forms (prototypes) of the icons belong to the Church. The icon painted by the individual iconographer belongs to that iconographer especially when that icon is is not simply a "photocopy" of an older icon and clearly recognizable as the work of a specific iconographer. This is why we know that icons were painted by Panselinos/ Theophanis/ Andrei Rublev etc and they were paid for their work and are given credit where it is due (And as George Kordis has said, when someone simply paints a copy of an old icon they should state that is is a copy of Panselinos/Theophanis etc not "by the hand of so-and-so", and at least give credit to the iconographer who actually painted that icon that they have copied).

So please pray for us iconographers (especially those of us being attacked for exposing the latest site doing this) and before you get excited about the latest site selling "high quality prints at a reasonable price" please consider the consequences for the art of iconography and for us iconographers.

In Christ
Julia
 

Alicia Schout

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Every few months a new website pops up selling "high quality icon prints" at a "reasonable price" much to the joy of the faithful. What the faithful don't know is that the mere existence of these sites is destroying the art of iconography. Serious iconographers, for whom this is our life's work and our calling into which we put our heart and soul, simply cannot compete and many of us are on the brink of quitting because there are simply no commissions anymore. Soon the only hand-painted icons will be by Aunt Mary who attended a weekend paint-by-numbers course or the ones massed produced in China (yes, even in Greece they sell hand painted icons from China!)

Even worse many of the icons sold on these sites are stolen. It is hard enough for iconographers to make ends meet without people stealing our work. Most iconographers struggle financially. The owners simply download the icons from google (though their excuse is always that someone gave them the icons and they were told they are free to use them.) They never give credit to the iconographers nor do we receive any royalties. They sometimes claim to have searched for the iconographers but couldn't find them...so they posted the icons anyway. (My icons can only have been downloaded from my own sites where I sell prints and the metadata shows that I am the owner, so that excuse is invalid).

When we try to expose these sites we are inevitably attacked. After all these people are only "trying to make a living" ( from our work) and we are always accused of being "unOrthodox" and "unspiritual" for daring to make a living off our work. Iconographers are expected to live on the Holy Spirit alone, but the scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages." (1Ti 5:18 RSV). And there is the inevitable argument that icons belong to the church not to the iconographer therefore we have no right to make money off them (yet the people running these sites do!). But this is not true. The traditional forms (prototypes) of the icons belong to the Church. The icon painted by the individual iconographer belongs to that iconographer especially when that icon is is not simply a "photocopy" of an older icon and clearly recognizable as the work of a specific iconographer. This is why we know that icons were painted by Panselinos/ Theophanis/ Andrei Rublev etc and they were paid for their work and are given credit where it is due (And as George Kordis has said, when someone simply paints a copy of an old icon they should state that is is a copy of Panselinos/Theophanis etc not "by the hand of so-and-so", and at least give credit to the iconographer who actually painted that icon that they have copied).

So please pray for us iconographers (especially those of us being attacked for exposing the latest site doing this) and before you get excited about the latest site selling "high quality prints at a reasonable price" please consider the consequences for the art of iconography and for us iconographers.

In Christ
Julia
My friend command in the name of Jesus that your mountains (the stumling blocks) are moved and cast out in the sea. Those and that which are obstacle(s) to you, those who are preventing you from gain your daily bread or are threats to you. God says: in the sweat of our face shall we eat our bread. No man should steal the bread of another with deceit.
We should gain our bread in an honest way.
God be with you and through the cross of Jesus give you victory over this situation.
 
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Kajiki

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Anything bringing people closer to God the Father and Jesus Christ should be protected. I don't entirely understand icons but I will pray for you and the other icon creators.

God Bless!
 
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Anhelyna

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Lord have mercy !

It was Icons that made me aware of the Orthodox Church - many many years ago.

Stealing Iconographers' work is theft - pure and simple - but it's exceedingly difficult to prove I would imagine. The excuses are many and varied and sadly sites that sell these unauthorised icons / prints etc seem unable/unwilling to do much about it
 
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~Anastasia~

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Anything bringing people closer to God the Father and Jesus Christ should be protected. I don't entirely understand icons but I will pray for you and the other icon creators.

God Bless!
Bless you for your prayers. And I wanted to welcome you to TAW! :)
 
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FenderTL5

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You have my prayers.

One thing that could help (maybe) is to make sure any photos you have on the web (especially higher resolution) are watermarked.
It has to be frustrating to spend so much energy on something special, then to see it 'right-clicked' into someone else' store.
 
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ikonographics

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You have my prayers.

One thing that could help (maybe) is to make sure any photos you have on the web (especially higher resolution) are watermarked.
It has to be frustrating to spend so much energy on something special, then to see it 'right-clicked' into someone else' store.

In my own website they are watermarked. I have them in a couple of online galleries where I sell prints. In the one they can't be right-clicked and on the other they add a watermark but anyone with photoshop can remove it. But even then, the metadata still shows that I'm the copyright owner.
 
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ikonographics

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WHAT !!

Does Katherine [ you know who I mean ;) ] up here know ?

What about Paul Martin ?

This is lunacy
Yes, Katherine discovered the site and we and another Russian iconographer Ekaterina Daineko who has had loads of icons taken are fighting the matter.
 
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ikonographics

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Have you written your bishop about this problem?[/QUOΤΕ]

There isn't much a bishop in Greece can do. The site is in America and the icons are from iconographers in various countries. He had contacted one iconographer from Russia three years ago promising her commission and she trusted him because he seemed "very Orthodox" and sent him icons only to never hear from him again until we discovered his site a couple of days ago and she realised he's been selling her icons for years and not even been giving her credit.
 
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RobNJ

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Lord, have mercy!


Thank you for the prayers. They have managed to get me banned from posting on Facebook for 13 days!


Hey! Why is it, I know so many people that end up in Facebook jail? LOL ;)

(P.S. Try a new account with middle initial )
 
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~Anastasia~

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What about that big internet copyright law that went into effect some - what - 7 years or so back?

I remember I had trouble because of that law followed by the discovery that someone else was publishing my articles as their own. I had trouble "proving" it was my work, until I inserted a line in the middle of a long article with the statement, and silly them copied the whole thing.

Some countries you can't do anything about the source (this publisher was in such a country), but at least I cleared up sanctions against myself with the US companies I dealt with.

It was a big deal for a while. Private bloggers even started being careful about lifting random images from the web.

Have you tried talking to Google? They used to be quick about sending such sites into internet oblivion. These days they are not the only popular search engine, but they still have the major corner by far. They were big on not putting up with such nonsense when the law was first passed.
 
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GoingByzantine

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I went and checked out the website of the people selling icons that are not theirs that you mentioned in a post the other day. On their "about" page there is a link that redirects to a blog article that lists the church that they attend, as perhaps "intrusive" as it might sound, have you considered contacting their parish priest.
 
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